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Geez- I feel bad for the quality copywriters around here :(

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by driven, Dec 11, 2006.

  1. Rod

    Rod Well-Known Member

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    #41
    Copywriters in top advertizing agencies can earn more than $1,000 per word. Anyone who has written copy will understand that 20 words of good copy is harder to write than 1,000 words of content.
     
    Rod, Dec 14, 2006 IP
  2. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #42
    Sorry... wasn't around earlier. Denise summarized it well. Copy is about marketing and/or action, and content is informational in nature... to oversimplify it.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 14, 2006 IP
  3. qwestcommunications

    qwestcommunications Notable Member

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    #43
    No matter how you feel, I personally feel copywriters employed by marketing agencies and such are severely overpriced - if only they looked a bit deeper they would find writers that would accept 30%-40% of what they actually pay. I know I will attract some criticism for this but thats the way I feel.
     
    qwestcommunications, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  4. wordscientist

    wordscientist Peon

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    #44
    I think copywriters (the ones worth their salt, at least) are worth every dollar the agencies are paying them. These companies stand to make a ton off of well-written sales copy, so why shouldn't copywriters get a piece of the pie?

    A little OT, but you know that Publisher's ClearingHouse Sweepstake direct mail piece? I read somewhere that the writer who wrote it (at least the original copy; don't know if it's been revamped) is still earning something like $900,000 a year in commission from it. I wish I could remember where I read it...anyone know if this is true?
     
    wordscientist, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  5. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #45
    You're free to feel however you feel qwest. But they're not paid an arbitrary amount... they're paid based on the value their work brings. Value-based pricing models have been around for ages, and are actually moving to become the standard (replacing a lot of hourly models) in many consulting and other independent-style fields. Paying a few thousand dollars for a sales letter is nothing to the people hiring them, b/c they know when they hire a professioal with a reputation for results that they can make hundreds of thousands or more from that one letter or other copywriting piece. Of course, not all copywriters are worth as much, b/c they're inexperienced or have no proven trackrecord, or quite frankly they're just not very good. If they weren't paying fairly based on the income they receive, many of the best simply wouldn't do it anymore. They're not just paying for copy; they're paying for that expertise behind its creation, just like in hiring a consultant. And when you need to hire a professional to do something you can't do yourself effectively, you're going to pay big bucks for it.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  6. qwestcommunications

    qwestcommunications Notable Member

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    #46
    Its not just the copywriting industry. This is the same with most industries. Look at the American sports industry. Do the owners of clubs really have to pay as much as they do to some of the stars? This is leading a few sports to enforce a capping system because the authorities are realising its getting out of hand.
     
    qwestcommunications, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  7. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #47
    Comparing copywriting or most professional industries to sports is kind of insane. You could never cap an industry where there's no potential cap on income from their work. With sports, you can only fill so many seats and only charge so much before fans stop coming....

    But on the note of sports, while I think it's a bit ridiculous, I can also understand it to a degree. They're not just paying for some guy who can play a game well. They're paying for all of the time they devote to training. They're paying for the right to use that person's name and face in their marketing and sales (and I have to tell you, I couldn't imagine being willing to essentially sell your identity cheaply, especially if you have your own reputation). On the note of reputation, they're buying access to that and the image that comes along with it, which is something that is often built up over a long period of time, making it quite valuable imo. If they were just paying for athletes, I'd agree even more. But they're paying for promotional vehicles and riding on their backs, so yes, I do think they should be paid quite a bit for that.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  8. qwestcommunications

    qwestcommunications Notable Member

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    #48
    You make a great case. But I think its insane to pay someone that much. Personally, I have come across articles in some of these publications, and some of them are nothing special, in fact, some of the writers on DP write better for much, much less.
     
    qwestcommunications, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  9. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #49
    You can't judge that DP writers are much better, b/c you're not able to evaluate their work in the sense of how much they generally earn for their clients, versus how much a top copywriter is. More than likely, a professional is going to earn the client enormously more than someone starting out ... and if they're only asking for a little, they're either starting out, or they don't have the results to back them up... otherwise they'd just be foolish to accept it.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  10. jeeplaw

    jeeplaw Well-Known Member

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    #50
    The copywriters who have been around the longest understand the trends of the "come and go" writers and their prices. Some of my writers have other job agencies assigning jobs to them where they get paid $1,000 for copy production. Some other writers are stricty press release writers and get paid every penny they're worth as their sole offline job is in journalism, writing for major papers.

    You hang out here long enough, the real cream of the crop tend to stick around and as always, word of mouth is a great business indicator.

    And I haven't changed our prices in over a year ;)
     
    jeeplaw, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  11. chris20492002

    chris20492002 Guest

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    #51
    Its basic supply and demand.
     
    chris20492002, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  12. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #52
    Well, not quite so "basic". There are various levels of demand in copywriting. As an example, some people have demand for a sales letter that will have a certain conversion rate, as opposed to simply demand for a sales letter. There are different levels of needs, and those with the greatest need of a financial benefit are going to be willing to pay for a top notch writer.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 15, 2006 IP
  13. Writeyness

    Writeyness Peon

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    #53
    My position is - clients get what they pay for. Good writing can make a HUGE difference to how your business performs. Bad writing can actually damage it.
     
    Writeyness, Dec 21, 2006 IP
  14. dlow123

    dlow123 Active Member

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    #54
    It's funny that you should all mention quality over quantity. I am in search of a few good men/women for some quality work. Check out this thread if you are interested and can deliver at a reasonable budget (No dollar bids here :))

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=203036
     
    dlow123, Dec 22, 2006 IP
  15. 1fortune4m

    1fortune4m Peon

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    #55
    I am new to copywriting, and this forum obviously by my Announcement of this being my first post.

    I love to write and have had experience in the writing field.
    I do have a copy of the text " Masters of Copyrighting".

    Is this a suitable Starter, complete guide or should I look else where
    to gain my knowlege?

    Does anyone have suggestions?

    Thanks.
     
    1fortune4m, Dec 22, 2006 IP
  16. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #56
    1fortune4m - One book can't teach you how to become a copywriter. You need to be able to understand general marketing (especially target markets, their motivations, and how to influence them) if you ever want to be a seriously successful copywriter... it's not just about the writing (not even close). Start by learning the basics first. Pick up a few textbooks. Look at some samples on top notch sites. You need to learn from a variety of sources, and not just one book.

    dlow - By getting articles "out" about the sites, I'm not really sure from your post whether you're really looking for "articles" - it sounds more like press releases - in which case $20 is far too low for any professional (you'll get kids and people with no honest training who would probably be happy to do it by simply formatting an article to "look like" one - happens a lot here). If you want articles, as in you're planning to submit them to basic article directories or something, the pay is higher than what most webmasters here are paying (good to see), but is still extremely low if you're looking for a professional writer w/ any kind of expertise (meaning not regurgitated Web research for the most part). I'd be surprised if you don't get a lot of PMs, simply b/c it's higher than most here. But there are a few writers who tend to put out consistent high-quality work, so you may want to contact them personally: DeniseJ, Highflyer, InternetAuthor, ILoveWriting.

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Dec 22, 2006 IP
  17. dlow123

    dlow123 Active Member

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    #57
    Good to know, thanks Jenn. All writers listed, expect a pm shortly. I don't mind paying more for quality work obviously, but your posts regarding the thousand - million dollar writers are somewhat scary :eek:
     
    dlow123, Dec 22, 2006 IP
  18. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #58
    I don't recall saying anything about million dollar writers. ;) But yes, over $1000 per feature isn't unusual at all for professionals... even in online outlets if they know where to look. $20 for for basic content though isn't too bad compared to the competition posting gigs here though, especially if it doesn't involve a huge amount of time in research for them.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 22, 2006 IP
  19. deviant_writer

    deviant_writer Peon

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    #59
    that's a great news denisej. as for me, i used to work as a writer full time but circumstances forced me to change my course. DP has provided me a way to get back into writing. this is actually my first time to go freelance for web writing since before, i used to write full time for a website network.

    and to be honest, i just didnt quite know how to get started here. like what my rate should be, so the tendency is to offer a low rate, as a beginner then rate becomes a bit higher as you build your reputation:confused:
     
    deviant_writer, Dec 22, 2006 IP
  20. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #60
    That's the tendancy, yes... but it shouldn't be. The fact of the matter is that most people who get into that way of thinking are never able to raise their rates to exactly where they want to be. To do that you have to be prepared to lose most, if not all, of those low-rate clients, and too many writers panic at that thought. They also get so caught up in turning out large quantities of cheap content that they can never find the time to research and query higher-paying publications (not to mention that those cheap pieces don't serve as a quality portfolio for most professional publications).

    You have to decide early on what kind of writer you want to be. If you want to earn professional rates, then you need to take the right steps to get there from the start, and that's what Denise, the others, and I are trying to give people a bit of a kick-start with.
     
    jhmattern, Dec 22, 2006 IP