Gay German Couple Broken Up and Forced into Heterosexuality

What in bloody hell are you talking about ? Have you been living on the Moon or something ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange#Swedish_arrest_warrant_for_alleged_sex_offenses . I did mistake molesting for child abuse but the guy is still wanted . Personally I think he should be arrested for being an grade A idiot but that's just my opinion .

You're getting a little to obsessed right wing and left wing , at the end of the day politics will always be politics and the public will never know what is spoken behind close doors . Their real agendas where always known , you just have to look and see . A leader will always put his full agenda on the table is a eudaimonic dream .

The truth is always known you just need to have to keep your eyes open and know where to look . This hacking of US official documents as been going on since the early days of the Internet , just that people understood the value of such things and didn't thought of monetizing on them .

 

You've forgotten the words of your famous president? Just to remind you of the way people used to think. "For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." --John F. Kennedy - maybe that's why they killed him?

Liebermann has had to make new laws so Assange can be charged retrospectively with treason. - Now Assange can be accused of breaking a 'scarier' law and a 'disgusting' crime against humanity, yet one that didn't break laws at the time of the crime. A step towards breaking down the freedom of speech you are supposed to hold so dear. A few here are afraid of the truth but they're truly on the losing team.

As to his crime, it's a joke. From your wiki link:

I would think his low profile ATM is extremely fair enough, based on what the right-wingers want to do to him, and the level of the crime he's actually commited. There's not a chance he's hiding from the rape, moreso he's only avoiding the people in power that want him dead. I'm 100% in agreement with what Assange has done and yes, I have already donated money to his cause and I expect to donate again in the future to establish his fighting fund (for lawyers that is) once you right-wingers get a hold of him.

That's because that IS the only type of people that exist when talking politics.

You're either left wing, centred or right wing.

Or, as Bush might say, you're either with us, or against us, there's no centre in his view, that's called a fence.

I see it as:
Left wingers = for the people - caring, supportive etc. (Democrats over there, Greens & Labour here)
Right wingers =for the country - warmongers, bullies, liars, cheats etc. (Repubs there, Libs here)

Whilst it's great to strike a balance between the two I think we've moved too far to the right (in the name of capitalism). Please note that a country is nothing without people and when the scale leans towards the country whilst trampling its people you need the left wingers to bring it back to centre. That's all thats happening in the big picture and if that annoys you then good, get used to it because that is the future.

No matter whether you like it or not, the TRUTH will always win out over lies, deceit & trickery.

 

1. I'm a E.U. citizen not U.S. if you have eyes you can see that
2. Wikileaks is violating one country's information law by hiding in another . Last time I checked that was named espionage .
3. Secrets exist and there will always be more secrets created this is human nature or do you think that privacy should be thrown in the bin ?

 

Trying to bring truth back into the world? Odd you would us spin in the same sentence you disparage a man for allegedly using spin. To your points:

1) There is not now, nor has there ever been a truly unbiased news outlet on the planet. CSPAN comes the closest, though the few commentators it does have lean left. The nice thing about CSPAN is that most times, it just leaves the camera on in the halls of congress with no reporting whatsoever. Information, not news.

2) Just because Fox spins right/chooses to air news supportive of right leaning views does not make it any less legitimate than CNN or NBC which does the exact same thing for the left. MSNBC is a breed apart, having completely abandoned even the guise of impartiality.

3) No government can exist without the ability to keep secrets. Hell, no business can exist without the ability to keep secrets. What you spun as "trying to bring truth back into this world" is what literally every government on the planet calls espionage. I find it quite shocking to see some on the left trying to frame this up as "freedom of speech" when we all know freedom of speech has limits, including but not limited to, yelling fire in a crowded theater, slandering other individuals or businesses, exposing the trade secrets and/or plans and designs of your employer, and making public documents a government has classified as secret.

Funny, just the other day I had one of my friends accuse me, and rightly so, of being the left leaning guy in the crew. I personally consider myself a centrist. If one of the two of us is blinded based on his distance from the center, I'd say it is the gay guy calling for an end to firearms and state secrets who lives with wild animals in the forest feeding on nuts and berries.

 

That would have been funny, a whole pile of right wingers saying you're leaning left. They obviously don't comein here to see the shit you spruke. What surprises me is that YOU can believe yourself, and come across as 'smart' at the same time.

I think your logic is very misguided. You'll get over that as the TRUTH of so much spin becomes apparent to you to.

More lies, where do I say there should be an END to firearms? In fact I said i support firearms in the right place, not just handed out because "it's your right!". Nuts & berries, you're either delusional or like all right-wingers, using lies & deciept to bolster your illogical arguments.

 

When you live on the extreme left, every other leftist is still to the right of you, and centrists seem like extreme rightists. If you knew my friends, you'd call me a liberal too.

 

Agreed, but when one extremely powerful bloke owns a 40% stake of the media in ALL major cities around the world and up to 80% in some countries, and that stake is still growing, it's a little hard to not get his pro-war right-wing ideals out there. Us lefties have a huge challenge to bring things back to centre..

One person should never be able to own more than 5% of any countries media in order to provide the community a properly balanced view. He runs a huge campaign anytime that anyone tries to fight it. Looked at Fiji Times recently or heard about the pressure he put on that community to retain his stranglehold on them.

He can be your hero but he'll never be mine. I guess that's why he's there and not here, he's not well liked by Joe public but the people in power jump all over him because they know how he can affect their lives positively, or negatively.

 

I am calling you a Liberal, but that has different connotations here than it does there.

From my above post.

 

This is probably why people stay in the closet. Personally I really don't care what you think of my sexuality but using it to put someone down is immoral.

The fact you're a muslim (or you belong to a group of Israel supporters) is something I could pull out & use against you anytime but I don't stoop down to your ignorant and childish arrogance. How about STOP using my sexuality as a weapon in your defense? Use my logic, brains, conversation anytime but my sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with your argument.

 

1. US government was given the chance to screen documents to censor names before they were released.
2. Julian Assange:
WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During that time there has been no credible allegation, even by organisations like the Pentagon that even a single person has come to harm as a result of our activities. This is despite much-attempted manipulation and spin trying to lead people to a counter-factual conclusion.

 

@Helvetti: It isn't the government's obligation to prove harm as a result of the release of the documents. This isn't a civil case, its a criminal one. Release of classified documents is a crime in and of itself.

@Bushranger: 3 posts in response to one? I must have hit a nerve. To your points:

1) Regarding your obvious sensitivity about your sexuality, I could give two cr*ps about your sexuality. Ok, maybe only one. Your sexuality, along with your stance on gun control, along with your stance on US lead wars abroad, along with every other data point you've made public on this forum, are all fair game when painting a picture of ones political views as I did. Pointing out most gays vote liberal is like pointing out the sky is blue so please drop the Jesus Christ complex. Oh, and feel free to have at me on my Muslim faith or my support for Israel. I welcome the discussion.

2) Up until recently, BBC and CNNI dominated the news market in foreign countries that allow in foreign media. Both of those broadcasters lean heavily left. Given that information alone, worldwide Bush derangement syndrome came as no surprise to me. I saw crap coming out of CNNi that no CNN viewer back in the states would stomach. They would just turn the channel. Fox News/Sky News is now making an enormous push in overseas markets and it is long overdue. The rest of the world has been spoon fed leftist bullshit for far too long.

Back in the US, Fox does dominate the cable news market, but only in comparison to the next lowest guy on the list. When you aggregate the other news sources together including network news, most of which lean left, Fox makes up a small portion of the market, and not the scary "News monopoly" you like to imply.

As far as no one company owning more than 5% of any news market, that is the same "fairness doctrine" based load of crap they have been trying to sell here in America for a long time. It equates to state censorship. Did you know that very few liberal talk radio programs have survived in America for any length of time, outside of the state sponsored NPR? The liberals in government keep trying to "fix" that "problem" by creating government regulation to make sure voices on the left and right get equal air time, regardless of audience demand.

 

@Helvetti I can understand Bush's political innocence and desire for a cuddly and friendly government but you're smart enough to understand . So are you trolling for lulz or simply trolling FABW ?

@Bush Triple post , editing after a reply is posted - dude get a grip , you're loosing it . Left and right political ideas mean nothing for those in charge , they are just names . And BTW you're beloved left isn't shy of war . Remember Serbia in 1999 ? The fact is that without a strong leader a nation cannot achieve it's full potential .

Left = too liberal , always dreaming of cooking up some new social phantasm , ignoring everything that's good just for the sake of change
Right = too conservative , able to think outside the box but hating the results , a bit more corrupt then the left on a general scale but less corrupt on a individual scale

 

So far I have not seen anything released by Wikileaks which threatens "national security" of any country or Individual. All this crying out loud is just because some people don't want their backstabbing and double standards exposed. Yes the cablegate leaks do cause embarrassment to a lot of nations but a simple solution to that would be to not do anything embarrassing to begin with.

You can't kill 10,000 civilians and classify the information as a national secret protected by secrecy laws. What a load of crap. I see no moral justification for such behavior. My best wishes are with wikileaks and specially Assange. I have done my bit and made a small doation, maybe you should too.

 

Three posts @ different times as I thought you might not go back & read old messages and would have missed the bits I thought of later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corporation

I think you need to take off some blinkers, he's as sus as they come. A power-hugry right-wing fanatic, intent on making us all bow down to his glory. I won't post the full list as it's very long as to what he owns but you can find it in that link. Murdoch owned News Corp. is indeed the big 'scary' organisation that I implied.

When you own a lot of press you can manipulate the masses to believe whatever you want them to. Murdoch's, in an effort to keep his dollar producing advertisers happy, tells everyone house prices are going up in story after story after story so people believe him & they buy at even higher prices. He counteracts that with a couple of 'bubble's gonna burst' stories, just in case it falls over, so he claims the good-guy status no matter what happens.

He did the same with Wall st. Helped make it fall over then bought out the stockmarket. We were told weeks before it happened, what was going to happen, and by Murdoch owned newspapers first.

If twenty people owned the papers there's more chance of an economy built on truth rather than the few that own the media now getting together and pushing their own agendas. The more media moguls there are the more of a cross section we get to read.

As it is with Murdoch owning (or having a decision-making stake in) over 60% of 'our' press, and now much of yours, we're all getting told whatever he decides. He's setting the agenda for hundreds of millions of people, a power-hungry meglo-maniac.

His father was a great man, started the Herald-sun here in Australia and he worked to make that a well respected and great Australian newspaper. He couldn't stand Rupert either, because Rupert gave a damn about noone but himself so he packed him off to live over there.

All Rupert's doing now is still using his dad's good name and infiltrating everything he can to accumulate more & more wealth using outright lies, trickery & deceipt to do it and that's fine with you?

 

Such a long post without presenting a single fact in support of your argument. Seriously, a list of assets owned by News Corp? Who cares. If that qualified as an argument, this would qualify as a counter argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_General_Electric

Oh I know, how bout this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Microsoft_Corporation

or this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Google



As I stated before, it seems you want to do away with the free marketplace for media and ideas based on the fact that you disagree with the ideas. Oh, and your groundless accusation that Murdoch has individual input on everything put out of every one of his media outlets is preposterous. One thing that does seem blatantly obvious is that a hard code liberal like Bob Beckel, Alan Colmbs, Juan Williams, or Geraldo Rivera has a much better job of retaining his job on Fox than anyone right of center has of retaining his job at MSNBC. Joe Scarborough has been wussified to the point of being unrecognizable. I think Rachel Maddow keeps his penis in a jar on her desk.

[Edit] One other thing I find noteworthy, both in reading your post, and in watching MSNBC. The lefties seem to be a very hateful and bitter group of people. Its no wonder they cant garner a viewing audience. They have no facts to offer, or even humor, only vitriol and complaints. Watch the stylings of a guy like Sean Hannity, who brings people on his show who he bitterly disagrees with and has a friendly argument, vs Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Ed Schultz, Chris Mathews or Keith Olberman, who you can tell quite literally hate the rare right of center guest they have on their show. I actually loathe being preached at by some news caster who thinks he/she is holier than thou. Its one of the reasons I really don't like watching O'Reilly.

 

I'd like quote a very old post from a very respected old member over here...

 

As I said in another post, WE ALL see what we wanna see. Go looking and you will find it. If you look for the bad you will find it and look for the good you will find it. Your problem is you point out the good, but in bad people.

You don't need truth and are just playing with me. We could argue for years or just give up because we both know each others an absolute tosser and won't look for counter-arguments to our positions. I happen to come from one side of the fence and you another. You've been scorned and set aside where I have only ever received good. I look for truth and honesty where you look towards how much you can make out of that and throw the unimportant bit away (truth's just in the way of making money eh?).

How does GE relate to manipulating the people? What, filling their dishwasher's instruction manuals with propoganda? Listen to yourself. Your logic just doesn't exist does it?

My point was THE MEDIA and you know it, Murdoch owns the foundation paper where ALL reporters take at least a few of their stories from because it earnt the respect it carries on his daddy's name.

A media tycoon with THAT much illgotten power has the ability to absolutely change our way of life, the way we think. They help persuade us all to think one way or another, bringing about many unjust and immoral laws in order to retain his stranglehold on power.

I lean left of center, but not as far left as you would have everyone believe. You're way to the right, certainly not the centrist you say you are but as rightwingers are full of shit to make a false case, there's no surprise there.

Do you really think you're not saturated with Murdoch induced propoganda everyday and that none of that affects the way you think? If so you are full of shit, even I get caught on their stupid roundabout every so often.

 

What a wonderfully amazing judgmental statement. Bad people? Is this based on a jury of their peers, or do you perceive yourself as some sort of god, playing judge of character for all mankind?

Not much social or intellectual mobility in your world, is there.

Can we all just get along and have a group hug? Lets just do away with making money, or getting ahead in life. Not that this statement has any evidence behind it, but if it did, oh lord! I don't know what I would do if someone disapproved of my views or how I lived my life! Delicious double irony(hypocrisy?) getting such commentary from a gay guy(and yes, I did just use the word delicious).

Reading is the first step to better educating yourself. From the GE holdings link I sent you:

Blah blah blah blah. More groundless drivel.

Your statements speak for themselves

More judgment? What happened to "I'm ok you're ok"?

To be fair, I watch more General Electric than I do Murdoch. Its where I get my centrist angst from. Have some nuts and berries and open your mind a bit.

 

Oh you got me there, yes I do, in fact that's exactly what I am. You must have read some of my previous posts as a Muslim can't think for himself. Much better than believing some magic man in the sky is keeping me on track. What do Muslims think God is?

Okay, you had a win on GE, but the rest of your logic doesn't follow.

As for the rest of your crap, trying to justify your 'needed' lies, don't forget you're supposed to talk shit out of your ass, not your mouth.

 

We've been over this ground. Your posts are preachy and judgmental. They speak for themselves. You are the one who moved beyond good and bad in everyone, making the leap to people who are innately bad, even though they may do a good thing now and again.

Allah is a god who makes judgments of who is and is not innately bad and deserving of an eternity in hell. I'm sure you are not in the least bit surprised to find that you fall into one of the many groups that will burn in hell for all eternity.

For my part, I'm an American so I try not to refer to groups of people or individuals as innately bad unless I have some very specific and hard evidence to prove that they are bad. You know, something like locking their baby in the trunk of a car? Hard to call that anything but evil. If Allah says you are bad because of your lifestyle, good on him. He'll deal with you in the afterlife. In the meantime live and let live I say, so long as your actions don't tread on my rights.

An insult contest? Seriously? Why is it the unarmed who always want to start a battle of wits?