That must be waaaaaaaaaaay back east, Luxemborg, maybe -Turkey??? Hey thought you were'nt being mean-spirited, I now believe I was wrong, so go ahead, let's have at it: What you obviously do not realize because you do not work in an industry of which you nevertheless consider yourself an expert is that the vast majority of illegals get their jobs with false ID. Not stolen, mind you, simply false. Their Social Security numbers, for instance, are made up. The taxes, FUTA, SUTA, FICA, Unemployment Insurance, etc are dutifully taken out of their paychecks by their employers in accordance with the law and paid to the appropriate state and federal agencies. This is the equation guys like you just don't get. The MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars in pure gain this represents is a boon to these agencies, and to some, perhaps, what does, or what will, help keep them afloat. Because these illegals you are so concerned about CAN NEVER RECEIVE THE BENEFITS OF THESE TAXES THEY PAY. Why do you think, besides the fact that they KNOW we need them, the government is so slow to react??? One wonders where Social Security might be, for instance, without them.
you really think the taxes illegals pay on those 12,000 a year salarys makes up for the amount they suck out social programs? I would really like to see some links that support that. Frankly if you business cannot survive without breaking the law, do you really deserve to be in business?
ferret, you write: "Frankly if you business cannot survive without breaking the law, do you really deserve to be in business?" One can hide his head in the sand all he likes. But sooner or later he's going to get hungry and pull it out and go looking for something to eat. That will likely be at a nearby restaurant...
I just don't understand how anyone can feel that their business needs to break the law to stay in business.
Ferrett, on other threads, you are absolutely certain these workers are being exploited, and you cry foul on this basis. On this thread, you protest on the basis of legality. What, sincerely, is at the heart of what's bothering you? From my side of the burner, no one is being exploited; or, more, everybody is being exploited, as everyone pulls 100 hour weeks, is expected to do so without whining, and is being paid crap for the privilege. The skins that are being molded by fire into rhino pelts come in all colors, mine included. May I ask - have you ever worked in food service?
I was thinking of a practical joke to come up with as originally promised. The only thing funny I could actually think of is some poor hard working illegal alien, paying a coyote every dime he ever had just to sneak across the border, gets here and right away gets one of those 100 hours a grueling week job that North writes about... What if the author of this thread was actually right? Lets say these criminal little aliens actually steal good ol American citizens' identities? Now, here's the joke - what if he stole my identity? The poor sod... LOLOL - I've been married three times and have five children I pay child support for. LOLOL... The poor bastard... LOLOL Come to America and steal my I.D.. LOLOLOLOL "You poor ol' sod - you see, it's only - me..."
illegals don't bother me that much, but I don't think people should be able just jump a fence and live here. When a business owner thinks they have to break the law, to be in business , they should be put out of business in my opinion. I would love to just grow pot or something, instead of designing websites, but its illegal so I can't. I'm not special like apparently people who own restuarants are. Thats great but so what? When people talk about how great illegals are and what hard workers they are , that to me is just code for we can get them to work for cheap, they work harder for cheaper Thats really what you like about illegals isn't it, they work hard for less yeah but I think it sucks people want illegals here so they will do labor for cheap, and when the illegals get sick or get arrested, then everyone else gets to pay for it
OK, yes, I know this is your point of view - they are sought after because they are rock-bottom priced. I ask you again - have you ever worked in food service? You appear to be speaking with great authority on something you know absolutely nothing about.
Let me guess you pay the illegals tons of money because they are such hard workers, you give them raises all the time, you actually pay them more then americans because they work so hard.
OK. In my decades in the industry, I haven't seen this wage differential you are leaping to. In my experience, front and back of house, they are prized as they are solid workers. End of story. Please provide specific examples of this wage differential you are referring to, over and over again.
You are not making any sense. In the kitchens I've worked in, no one has an obvious sign that says ILLEGAL ALIEN on their forehead. In my industry, people show themselves, and they gain more responsibility; with more responsibility, they gain better money. In all my years, I have not seen this theoretical pattern you keep leaping to. "Tons of money." LOL - please tell me your specific years and nature of your "food service experience," where ANYONE is making tons of money.
I don't claim to know about any wage diferential, I know working in the food industry sucks, its hard and doesn't pay much, which is why illegals are doing it If it paid a lot or was easy some nice soft americans would slide right in there. yeah and if the job paid $100 an hour, I would come be your solid worker
Along with many other folks, admittedly, a special breed of insane. I would venture you are missing this because you have not worked in the industry, to any appreciable extent. I can, once again, tell you from a chef's perspective (I've also worked the front of house, off and on, many years as a captain): No chef will risk his balls to hire someone who doesn't have the chops, in some accounting-book effort to save money. It's stupid. In the kitchen, you either put up, or you're shown the door. That many of the folks from below the border (along with ex-cons, moral reprobates and other rogues, scalawags and persons of checkered history) have the skills, is testament to their character in an industry that usually washes out, and nothing else.
I understood your drift, just that what you said did not make any sense. To rise to the level of sarcasm, it requires wit, which itself requires skill. Instead of writing "you're not making any sense," to: I should have said:
Not more, just a different kind. From my example, pulling 90+ hours weekly at minimum wage, no overtime paid (though "legally" required), as I wanted very much to work with the chef in question. Oh, and I'm for all intents and purposes a white guy, Berkeley honors-educated, and native born. And I am one of 1000's. Your theories are just that - theories. They are not backed by real-world conditions.
so what you are trying to say is that this job is a good job and that illegals work it because they have character you seem like a smart guy, but you kind of sound like your of full it and you are the bus boy, dishwasher, waiter? Or are you the chef or owner?