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Fraudulent Chargebacks - TODAY I START FIGHTING BACK

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by iknowalittlebit, Nov 12, 2009.

  1. ChrisMiller

    ChrisMiller Prominent Member

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    #41
    Way to go if I did this and it wouldn't have worked I would have probably resorted to just shooting the buyer and getting your item back. heh ;)
    SEMrush
     
    ChrisMiller, Dec 26, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. GPTHQ.com

    GPTHQ.com Peon

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    #42
    I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but there's a famous movie quote relating to this. Google "here to chew bubblegum".
     
    GPTHQ.com, Jan 8, 2010 IP
  3. jNorth

    jNorth Peon

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    #43
    A collection agency might work for you. You loose a little but not the whole amount.
     
    jNorth, Jan 11, 2010 IP
  4. Phillychzsteak

    Phillychzsteak Active Member

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    #44
    After being screwed several times by chargebacks and paypal not reversing fraudulent activity, I've been inspired by your thread. Nice to hear you got your money back, this doesn't happen often.
     
    Phillychzsteak, Jan 25, 2010 IP
  5. McDoug

    McDoug Peon

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    #45
    Did that lady who was told by her hospital to dispute charges give you any trouble?
     
    McDoug, Feb 1, 2010 IP
  6. iknowalittlebit

    iknowalittlebit Peon

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    #46
    She called again a week later and left a message. I called her back at home and her "dying" husband answered the phone. She got on the phone and said that she has sent an online request with her CC company to "reverse the charges". I explained to her the course of action that I would take if she did not cancel that request. Apparently I scared her enough to cancel it.
     
    iknowalittlebit, Feb 1, 2010 IP
  7. McDoug

    McDoug Peon

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    #47
    haha nice work man. I would feel like a dick taking money back from elderly people but they are stealing so im all for what you are doing.
     
    McDoug, Feb 1, 2010 IP
  8. extraspecial

    extraspecial Member

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    #48
    What kind of business are you doing? I don't recommend to work with PayPal if you are charging more than $200 because people always have the chance to claim that the product or service as not received and then you will get busy with some idiot PayPal employees... It happened once to me, it was a digital product and although I have sent it... PayPal gave the money back to them! it was $29.97 not a big deal but I still don't trust to PayPal...
     
    extraspecial, Feb 2, 2010 IP
  9. seodetectors07

    seodetectors07 Notable Member

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    #49
    Yes, normally we receive atleast 5-10 fraud sales like this ,chargeback is the main problem to e-business, however if you have very good legal team & strong user / refund policy then you can file legal action against this chargebackers.

    1,track chargebackers Address from merchant & verify their address if real or not, if real then file a case without any delay. if chargebacker address seems diffrent state,diffrent country then you can hire a attorny from expertlaw.com or net-arb.com.

    2,if you don't have valid address then add their websites,name and other details to badcustomer.com / chargebackprotection.org,etc sites..

    so their new buyers and futuere providers will understand about this chargebackers.
     
    seodetectors07, Feb 6, 2010 IP
  10. AniMud

    AniMud Peon

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    #50
    it's funny though, because your one of the biggest scammers on DP
     
    AniMud, Mar 9, 2010 IP
  11. seofriend

    seofriend Well-Known Member

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    #51
    That's because of of the type of goods you sell , and your payment method
     
    seofriend, Dec 19, 2015 IP
  12. ZackP

    ZackP Greenhorn

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    #52
    We are in Canada and have 3 on-line stores. One is selling small electronic devices. I searched whole Digital Point for chargeback threads. This one is by far most detailed and useful. Inspiring as one poster said.

    As OP described in initial post we have our own list of chargebacks. See my post here if you care to read: https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/fight-chargeback-or-not.2784656/#post-19360912

    We had some with PayPal who was our first processor but we always won chargebacks. Then we noticed that 7-8 out of 10 orders get payment rejected. Losing sales like that we concluded that PayPal is doing something wrong and decided to use other processor.
    It was immensely stupid idea to move to Authorize.net/Elavon. They claim to be a "real CC processors" so we switched to them to do better. So after only month and half with Elavon chargebacks started coming in. After about 2 months they closed our account unilaterally, just turned it off overnight. We switched back to PayPal. Now we have pile of chargebacks to fight. Would never, ever go back to Elavon.

    We lost 2 today and another one is on it's way like that with same faith. We lost 2-3 because we didn't answer with pre-arbitration papers on time. Elavon mails us chargeback letters by mail. We always receive them at least 2 days too late to answer. Now we finally switched to e-mail and fax but not before we lost at least 3 that way. Have impression that Elavon people are just paper pushers and do not really fight for merchant. We lost chargebacks that we were 100% sure we will win. For example buyer from Calgary orders something, pays, gets parts, signs for package at Fedex and sure enough claims later 83-fraud-card absent reason.

    Banks call this "friendly fraud" which is extra stupid name for stealing. Anyway, we always ship by Fedex and get signatures proofs of delivery. We win first round of chargebacks but always lose second one. How is that even possible? So first time is clear that we are right and second time, not any more. We are at mercy of credit card issuing banks and have impression that they side with customer regardless what evidence says. I wrote to Master card Canada Facebook site and person there wasn't interested in producing any help or solutions but rather pushing it back like "contact processor" or "contact acquiring bank". If you didn't know Master card chargeback manual is about 500 pages long. They made it as complicated as possible and is done to stick monkey wrench into merchant wheels. Process to start arbitration with Master or Visa directly costs about 500 dollars, that is supposedly refundable if merchant wins. One merchant wrote in post that he never won arbitration with Visa or Master. It's rigged system. Visa and Master have ability to check issuing bank and verify was chargeback procedure done right.

    Just imagine, guy buys something and later gets successful chargeback against merchant because he "can't recognize" charge. He didn't do it. Out of all chargebacks we ever had or have we never had even single time did person who received package called in and said: "I want to return this, didn't order it!". No way. They order, keep merchandise and get money back.

    Also, I bet anyone that none of the persons who made claim like that did NOT call bank and reported stolen credit card numbers and need new credit card. Banks wouldn't like that, replace credit cards to support fraudulent chargebacks. Visa and Master arbitration can easily find out facts like that, but I dare you to get it done.
     
    ZackP, Jul 20, 2016 IP
  13. Viktor Vedmak

    Viktor Vedmak Greenhorn

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    #53
    I can attest to that being 100% true. I've been dealing with chargebacks for past 20-25 years, and instead of hassle being on customer to get money back, hassle is on seller to keep money in the first place. In large number of cases they refund money (and this is not only CC company, but Paypal, Amazon, 2Checkout, eBay, etc) without even notifying seller. They just take money, give it back, and you are out.
     
    Viktor Vedmak, Oct 19, 2016 IP
  14. pmf123

    pmf123 Notable Member

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    #54
    I just blocked every country but like 7 on my paypal.... only had 1 chargeback in the last 6 months since
     
    pmf123, Oct 20, 2016 IP
  15. ZackP

    ZackP Greenhorn

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    #55
    What pmf123 have done is pretty drastic but sounds effective. Depending what he is selling he reduced opportunities to sell as well.
    We integrated our Woocommerce shopping cart with https://www.signifyd.com. They are credit card risk management service. Not only they provide risk estimate for every single order but also backup their assessments with insurance which covers up chargeback if it happens.

    So far it works and we like it. Only complaint we have is on our own platform integration where plug-in we have is not working very well. Hope to fix that soon.
     
    ZackP, Oct 21, 2016 IP
  16. BuySomeBitcoins

    BuySomeBitcoins Greenhorn

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    #56
    I completely agree with you, this is the RIGHT thing to do, they do not care about screwing your business, you should prosecute and protect your self and your business.
     
    BuySomeBitcoins, Nov 22, 2016 IP
  17. matt_62

    matt_62 Notable Member

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    #57
    IF, you are in the US, and a buyer from the US, buys an item from you, it is received, and signed for by the person listed on the credit card, yet does a chargeback, why can you not take them to small claims court? I have heard, (perhaps not in the US), where a company sent out an expensive product $xxx, but the buyer had instead paid for a cheap product $xx, the company was legally able to recover costs from anyone that did not return the item.

    I am certain that with a good, (ok, not good, but lets use the work SKILLED), lawyer that can even look at the logs of the ip of where the order was placed, could help in recovering lost funds. Especially in ops case where he spoke to them and they admitted to having the item, and the money. In this case, may need to even record phone calls with clients and I cannot see how you could ever lose in a court of law.

    Something that I did find out the hard way, is that insurance is not the responsibility of the buyer. Build it into the price, and do not give it as an option. Essentially "insurance" simply passes the risk from YOU, to the insurance company. The buyer never takes the risk, as they will simply win every case.
     
    matt_62, Nov 22, 2016 IP