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Fraudulent Chargebacks - TODAY I START FIGHTING BACK

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by iknowalittlebit, Nov 12, 2009.

  1. rokrohan

    rokrohan Active Member

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    #21
    @ iknowalittlebit>> This is really sad!! people are so shameless sometime!! Cheap!SEMrush
     
    rokrohan, Dec 1, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #22
    Good luck with your war these people, they do deserve it.

    They think they can order anything online and then keep the money.
     
    Toopac, Dec 1, 2009 IP
  3. iknowalittlebit

    iknowalittlebit Peon

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    #23
    UPDATE: Both thieves have reversed their chargebacks and the money was redeposited to our account.

    I plan on continuing this type of action against any customer that files a fraudulent chargeback against me in the future. Thieves be warned!

    Thanks for all of the support from the forum!
     
    iknowalittlebit, Dec 5, 2009 IP
  4. PHPmyMirror

    PHPmyMirror Peon

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    #24

    EXACTLY. Someone knows whats wrong with the system.

    And btw... Old people stink... no really, open the god dam window, it smells like old people. jk jk jk

    Most seniors are very very very very very nice and polite people.
     
    PHPmyMirror, Dec 12, 2009 IP
  5. GPTHQ.com

    GPTHQ.com Peon

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    #25
    Great news :D
     
    GPTHQ.com, Dec 14, 2009 IP
  6. nzjav05

    nzjav05 Peon

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    #26
    dont forget your bubblegum cause your kickin ass
     
    nzjav05, Dec 14, 2009 IP
  7. Cal813

    Cal813 Active Member

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    #27
    interesting.... and this worked for you... hmm....

    time to take down all the scammers on DP :D
     
    Cal813, Dec 14, 2009 IP
    BrandDoctor likes this.
  8. hhsaus

    hhsaus Active Member

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    #28
    That's great to hear. Fraudsters should always be punished.

    You might want to consider getting a manual payment gateway instead of paypal & real time payment gateways. Ever since we switched to a manual payment gateway (since Jan of this year) we've never had a chargeback! While in the old days of using a real time payment gateway we've had one chargeback once every 5 weeks.
     
    hhsaus, Dec 14, 2009 IP
  9. venturefox

    venturefox Notable Member

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    #29
    It's good to hear your efforts paid off against these people. It's disgraceful they think they can get away with receiving a (quite expensive) product without paying for it. If only more people had the resources to follow up on fraudulent customers like you, it would be a lot safer to do business. Maybe you should accompany this with a more explicit warning, stating your zero tolerance on this type of fraud, to your customers just before purchasing. I'm not sure if all your business is in the $xxx range, but if it is, a quick call to clarify your position on this topic could help as well.
     
    venturefox, Dec 19, 2009 IP
  10. goliath

    goliath Active Member

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    #30
    Paypal provides great services at great prices, and loads of people are doing business that couldn't otherwise.

    Jeccles you have clearly never been in this position with a merchant account.

    You will find that people are blacklisted from large processors because of these fraudulent chargebacks. It is not the merchant's fault but because of one idiot telling his friends to buy and charge back you may find your business being investigated for fraud. Because some asshole wanted to get a free product, and the credick card companies helped them to do it.

    I work in a service business, and I get at LEAST one chargeback every two months, usually about three days before the 1st. They're clearly idiots trying to get a couple of $$ back in their account at the end of the month, and I win EVERY SINGLE DISPUTE because I have signed invoice/authorization from them.

    At many processors the sheer volume of chargebacks over the last two years would have me banned or at minimum moved to a high-risk classification with exorbitant monthly AND per-transaction fees.

    The stories these people tell me when I call them are amazing, about how it was an accident, or they thought it was something else, or it said paypal and they thought it was fraud, whatever. They have my contact number right there on the monthly invoice, and they don't call, they just chargeback and then act innocent when someone actually stands up for themselves.

    Fraudulent chargebacks are becoming an industry unto themselves. Seedy financial advisors, friends and relatives, I met someone who was told she could chargeback every transaction she made and that odds were she would get out of paying more than half of the bills that way as people would be unwilling or unable to properly fight back.

    Paypal does have a very active investigations department and they do put you first. They hold your hand and take care of all but the most preliminary steps of challenging a chargeback. You practically do nothing at all, and if you have proof of shipping or service provided or whatever (non digital product) they get your money back.

    You may find that your bank or commercial processor has a different view. And paypal gives me back my money, usually within 15 days or so, rather than waiting until they get it back from the card company, 30-45 days out. Which a different processor may not bother to do. Especially if you use the word "internet".

    Other people can cause amazing problems for you, and people who act smug because it hasn't happened to them yet are the worst. Jeccles, if you even do any real business, remember that when some old lady gets you screwed out of your current processor, or your processing fees double, and all of a sudden paypal is the best/only option you have.

    Fight Back OP, and beware that many places small claims courts have a high enough $ limit to include a plane ticket in recovery costs. It might be fun to fly around chasing fraudsters for a while.

    At least here, the small claims courts I have seen are very supportive of business, and most of these old people will pay up when they receive a summons, long before they have to perjure themselves for their theft. They don't want to actually feel like the selfish and petty criminals they are. Or get caught and put under criminal charges.

    You'll never retrieve any punitive damages for the cost to your business, of course, and that's the worst thing. Best of luck on your quest for recovery.
     
    goliath, Dec 19, 2009 IP
  11. iknowalittlebit

    iknowalittlebit Peon

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    #31
    Great post, Goliath. PayPal is good for some, but for others. We have had PayPal freeze our accounts because of one chargeback before. We eventually got it unfrozen, but had to spend several hours preparing documents for them. This has actually happened three times. My first merchant account dumped me after three fraudulent chargebacks and put me on the TMF list, making it nearly impossible for me to have another merchant account. They told me that they are no longer doing business with anybody that caters to the senior citizen market for this very reason.

    My advice to everybody is to avoid dealing with a seniors only niche. They are notorious for fraudulent chargebacks. Case in point, a customer called me yesterday and said that they wanted to return their item because her husband had a heart attack and can no longer use it. I explained that the 45 day return period had expired and we can no longer take it back. She then said that the hospital told her to call her credit card company and dispute all charges that her husband made over the last six months to help with the bill.
     
    iknowalittlebit, Dec 19, 2009 IP
  12. tobycoke

    tobycoke Peon

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    #32
    You have to file the small claims action where the defendant lives - and then show up for the court dates. If the defendant lives out-of-town or out-of-state then it can get too expensive to pursue.
     
    tobycoke, Dec 19, 2009 IP
  13. goliath

    goliath Active Member

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    #33
    Yes, I feel for you. I decided to defend paypal because, as your own experience shows, they're actively working with their customers on this stuff. The other processors fully well understand what's happening, and rather than work to correct a serious problem with their own partners, the credit card companies, they treat the merchants like dirt.

    The medical industry is not the only place where what you describe is happening, and it's getting worse. It's bad enough when people are privately giving this advice, much less large industries and businesses. A lot of places are concerned with collecting, not with anyone else getting screwed, and as long as this loophole stays wide open for the consumer people are going to walk through it.

    My business isn't mail order, so I have the option to refuse cards. For those that don't, a few bad consumers can currently ruin your entire business. It's terrible.
     
    goliath, Dec 19, 2009 IP
  14. Imbo

    Imbo Member

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    #34
    Perhap's you should use the same merchant the seller of the Guaranteed black-hat method to make $100 + per day system. http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1616004

    It's almost pretty funny this person's belief about merchant's.

    Such as his following remark:

     
    Imbo, Dec 19, 2009 IP
  15. straightkingseek

    straightkingseek Guest

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    #35
    contact fbi internet crime and bust that pathetic scammer...
     
    straightkingseek, Dec 20, 2009 IP
  16. flock09

    flock09 Active Member

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    #36
    Regarding your $900+ and $300 thieves, how much did you actually spend to put those chargebacks in the right place? Sounds big to me.
     
    flock09, Dec 20, 2009 IP
  17. AngelaR

    AngelaR Guest

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    #37
    Because there are a ton! Actually most of the chargebackers are scammers from DP.. kids I think.... really stupid greedy ones.

    Good luck with your fight, I know what you mean.
     
    AngelaR, Dec 24, 2009 IP
  18. iknowalittlebit

    iknowalittlebit Peon

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    #38
    I didn't spend anything except for a lot of my time.
     
    iknowalittlebit, Dec 25, 2009 IP
  19. Chazman80

    Chazman80 Guest

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    #39
    Just another example of why America is owned by China...we sell each other out for a buck.
    Make sure you buy your health ins....they own yer ass now! People trying to make an honest living get screwed by the system everytime. This ain't Russia, this is worse.
     
    Chazman80, Dec 26, 2009 IP
  20. YugoSlavac

    YugoSlavac Well-Known Member

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    #40
    I'm not going to lie, that was a horrible attempt at making a joke. Bubble gum has nothing to do with someone's ass.
     
    YugoSlavac, Dec 26, 2009 IP
    McDoug likes this.