Forced to take a site down :O

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by soapbath, May 24, 2005.

  1. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #61
    This is a MAJOR issue and is further complicated when it gets international. I also don't think its off topic as Soapbath has gotten a lot of advice and this topic in general is always interesting to me.

    I am still learning a lot about the legal system over here as it is a lot more involved when it comes to legal costs and who is actually responsible for them after the case is ruled on. The American system is pretty cut in dry in that respect as you can find yourself bankrupt even if you win.

    To me that is BS and is the real problem.
     
    yfs1, May 25, 2005 IP
  2. mcfox

    mcfox Wind Maker

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    #62
    Obviously, there is more to this than we know about. Having said that, and previous advice notwithstanding, it would be a good idea to write to the school and ask them to clarify the reasons why they feel it is appropriate to demand you take the site down.

    My own guess is that the proxy server is being used to circumvent pre-existing rules and regulations regarding internet access from within the school and is perhaps being used outwith the school to attempt to gain access to the school systems.
     
    mcfox, May 25, 2005 IP
  3. marcel

    marcel Well-Known Member

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    #63
    I've been in your shoes over similar matters...

    If you purposely created a system, tool or device that lets you circumvent their rules and standards, Be HAPPY they haven't kicked ya out of school.

    Basically, you using inside school information to "hack" and get access to banned material.

    Maybe that definition is incorrect, but in the eyes of the public it's not.

    And besides, the energy , emotion and dedication it will take to fight this all the way to the supreme court of whatever could be used in better ways.

    Like improving your money making ecommerce skills...
     
    marcel, May 25, 2005 IP
  4. NetMidWest

    NetMidWest Peon

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    #64
    If you have ever worked on the site from the school, including checking email on the domain, they may have a case. Working on it during school hours using school property is the culpable point. I remember a kid who shoplifted from the store on lunch, almost got caught, and ran from the store (with the goods) back to school. Shortly thereafter, the police showed up and that student was suspended for illegal conduct during school hours, although it was lunch and off-campus.

    By working on it during school hours, and considering the point of the site (bypassing filters) combined, they would have a strong case.

    But I don't understand why they don't just block it... Sounds like a control game, to me.

    Put up a disclaimer:

    Using this site may violate TOS for your connection, library, school, may be illegal, etc.

    Then offer to show them how to block your site manually, since it seems they are unable to do so.

    They seem to be dependent on automatic software, and it does not work 100% of the time. I know of porn sites that look clean to anyone, pass filters okay, but do not filter because the software cannot actually view and judge the pics. They do crappy in the search engines, but offline marketing works wonders with all the mags available out there.

    Hell, they might even thank you.

    Be sure to bill them the going rate for any further help, though. :D
     
    NetMidWest, May 25, 2005 IP
  5. soapbath

    soapbath Peon

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    #65
    Thanks alot, lots of views here and it has helped me alot. Im sure it will also help other people. I am going to pass the site onto someone else so I don't own it anymore, but I will not say sorry for creating it.
     
    soapbath, May 25, 2005 IP
  6. jlawrence

    jlawrence Peon

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    #66
    And if you do help them, the going rate for good network people in the UK is actually quite high. Especially when you take into consideration call out fees etc etc.
    I regularly used to use my systems to bypass any and every filter they tried to put in place ( at a previous place of work ). They knew it was being done, but proof is another matter :)
    Also, I was very very good at the job I was doing at the time - and they knew damn well I could double or treble my wage by moving to a competiter, so I guess they didn't try too hard.
    But encryption is everything - try proving what that ssl connection was being use for.

    To me it sounds like your school either a) uses crappy firewalls, or b) the admin doesn't know how to config them.
    There is imho absolutely no excuse for ignorance when you connect a LAN to the 'net. Especially in the school arena. They have a 'duty of care' and if their systems aren't capable of stopping someone bypassing the firewalls by using a simple proxy (even if they do something unusual like encapsulating http within dns requests) then they are failing in that 'duty of care'.
    The problem with schools is that the often give the network admin/maintainer job to a teacher or they can't pay what is required for good people.

    I once went for an interview at a school for a network manager job, interview went well and I got offered the job there and then (even though they still have 5 more people to interview), the governers; representative and the school head made me an offer and then nearly had a heart attack when I told them how much they'd have to increase it by before I'd even consider it - I required over 3 times what they had the budget for.
    Schools need to realise that they need to pay backroom staff realistic wages if they want good staff.
    The sooner they realise that - or there is an big competent outsource system put in place - the better IMO.
     
    jlawrence, May 25, 2005 IP
  7. soapbath

    soapbath Peon

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    #67
    Just a update. I think I can say, due to you guys I have won :). Today the school has said sorry and offered me a gift vocher of £20 to cover loss. I put the points accrossed that you guys said and boya!
     
    soapbath, May 27, 2005 IP
  8. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #68
    Glad to hear you didn't get into any real trouble over the whole thing ;)
     
    yfs1, May 27, 2005 IP
  9. dct

    dct Finder of cool gadgets

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    #69
    Good for you soapbath, don't you just love it when a thread has a happy ending :D
     
    dct, May 27, 2005 IP
  10. marcel

    marcel Well-Known Member

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    #70
    I like that... and I'm happy for you.
     
    marcel, May 27, 2005 IP
  11. Design Agent

    Design Agent Peon

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    #71
    Nice one - power to the people :p
     
    Design Agent, May 27, 2005 IP
  12. uca

    uca Well-Known Member

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    #72
    I'm happy for you too!

    I'm also surprised as usually in these cases there actually is something at least grey, not illegitimate but maybe unethical.

    If they said sorry, it means you were and are right and I apologise for thinking differently.

    Congratulations Soapbath!

    PS: I would ask for another 180 pounds (just kiddin') :D
     
    uca, May 27, 2005 IP
  13. Hodgedup

    Hodgedup Notable Member

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    #73
    Congratulations. Way to stand your ground. Now go out there and make a lot more sites like that one. :D
     
    Hodgedup, May 27, 2005 IP
  14. chiefshuddle

    chiefshuddle Banned

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    #74
    I guess I don't get the issue, if this is just an anonymous proxy server what the hell, there are millions of them out there.
     
    chiefshuddle, Jun 9, 2005 IP
  15. soapbath

    soapbath Peon

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    #75
    You think its over then.. another school today Emailed me saying they will take 'Other more serious forms of action', now this one I just laughed at. Do they think they could do anything.. I mean the school that emailed me is from Iraland.
     
    soapbath, Jun 15, 2005 IP
  16. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #76
    I wouldn't take it seriously....There is no such country!

    Seriously though, thats a different story and you have no obligation to even answer them IMHO.
     
    yfs1, Jun 15, 2005 IP
  17. soapbath

    soapbath Peon

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    #77
    Yeah, thats what I thought, Thankies Yfs1. TBH my 'Antiblock' is widely used around England now days, and well.. its to late to stop it.
     
    soapbath, Jun 15, 2005 IP
  18. Cyclops

    Cyclops sensei

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    #78
    I'm guessing this is a product to circumvent firewalls at the schools and as a parent I think it is very reasonable and responsable for the schools to demand that the site cease to promote a product like this....if this is what it is about that is.
    I don't send my children to school to use the schools computers to download porn and the other products that I won't let them download at home.
    Their is a reason schools have firewalls in place.
     
    Cyclops, Jun 18, 2005 IP
  19. soapbath

    soapbath Peon

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    #79
    I fully agree with this Cyclops, trust me I do. But there are cases where the system is going over the top, I am making this 'Antiblock' system filter porn sites out, just not done yet.
     
    soapbath, Jun 19, 2005 IP
  20. Cyclops

    Cyclops sensei

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    #80
    Their is no "over the top".....the school owns the computers and have a duty of care not to let the students use them for any purpose other than education.
    It's hard enough keeping them focused without having the added distraction of using the computers for whatever they want. Viewing porn is only a small part of the issue.
    I know this first hand from listening to my son and his mates talk about what they have been using the schools computers for.
    My son spends as much time as he can playing online games at school because he and his mates have got past the firewall.
    If they get busted they will be suspended and depending on what they are caught doing could be expelled.

    Believe me it's hard for me to have this attitude but enough is enough, these kids are just wasting their time going to school.
     
    Cyclops, Jun 19, 2005 IP