Follow up on "The Return of Slavery by Kraven": Motion raised

To my fellow writers, thank you for taking a stand.
Buyers, feel free to butt in too. We want to hear both sides of the coin here. There's no right or wrong opinion here; we just want to lay down the ideas - and the numbers - about the motion I raised.
DP mods, you're following this right?

 

A lot of these stupid low wages would stop if terms were changed from fractions of cents into 2010. For those needing clarification, as an owner of an article directory, I can tell you very few articles are accepted under 500 words. You are just spamming the system that way. For buyers of writers services: The writer must produce attention with a quality title. The first paragraph must uncover the readers emotion. The next three paragraphs present the concept of how this emotional problem needs to get solve now--that is called conviction. The next 2 paragraphs are used to build up the readers desire in what your are offering. The last paragraph is a summary that must skillfully lead the reader to bio box. The writer should actually writer the bio box, because this must be done precisely right to direct the reader to a website. When you oftef cheap rates and then claim to be the author, you are only fooling yourself. Article Directories like mine are permanently banning false authors of poorly written articles.

BY paying 50% more you would have 4 times the website traffic and I have the analysis figures to prove it.

So set your prices at $7.00 per 500 word articles, $8, $15.00 depending on the quality you want. And many writers you are also to blame, learn and earn. Quit cutting each other throats. Any business that is going to last will spend 10% on advertising (articles). Now a poorly written article at $5.00 typically delivers 2 sales to someone getting $50 profit per sale. An average article at $8 will get 4 sales. Then one at $12 will get 7 or 8 sales. So get your butt to learning or quit bidding.

If this stupidity does not stop I will personally arm the writers. I can give them software and a sheet of instructions where they can turn out an article in 5 minutes of editing. Believe me buyer, you will not be able to tell an original from one that is not. This is coming from the mouth of a $250.00 500 word article writer. I have the resources to monopolize the market here if necessary.

So beggars quit begging, or I will come in with people and put every one of you out of business. On the buyer side either write a skilled article yourself or pay a decent rate. OR I will make sure that my "writers" get every cheap order and pay you back with 5 minute articles. I also have a stock of 80,000 articles right now, and can email them free very quickly.

This is not an open market. It is a shame to humanity. Anyone doubting my power might just find out. Get the pricing in line or the beggars will be forced out and the low priced buyer will get articles that take 5 minuets to produce. Stop this injustice now. And for those that want to call themselves a writer perform all the actions in an article I mentioned above in perfect English. For those that want to learn to step up there is no excuse holding you back.

These prices of below $5 let alone $7 have got to stop now. For any article purchaser having a bad time with this concept contact me and I will provide you the proof of how easily you can be fooled and how many buyers you are missing.

 

Holy moses! That should frighten them off.

 

It still does not answer the problem of scammers using the PM system to avoid every rule that could be made in this fruitless endeavor. What will you do about it ?

 

YES !

Make this a sticky and it may be the start of the end of the slavery problem. I can smell the foul smell of new dollar bills in my pocket.

 

To be honest, you can use the PM abuse system to good effect. Mods can create fake accounts with fake listings, advertise they want "x articles written" and then ask writers on here if they'd write for low prices and if they do, just ban them and bar their IP address. Would be very effective IMO.

 

Thank you, Advisor, for going such length to prove a point exactly. Buyers/writers should be reading this.

 

I thought this thread was a joke when I first saw it, then I realised people are actually going along with this in earnest.

I cannot understand for the life of me why this has suddenly become such a big deal. If you don't want to work for less than $0.01 per word then don't, nobody is forcing anybody to do anything that they don't want to do here. At the end of the day, if those people with a lower cost of living choose to work for less then that is up to them, the chances are quite high that English is not their first language and the articles they write will not be as easily comprehended by native English readers. Therefore they also cannot compete with serious writers. The people who come here to buy articles are not morons and they mostly understand the difference between cheap articles and quality articles. They make a choice when they make their thread and advertise for writers with regard to which kind of articles they want. If no quality writers took jobs that offer less than they want to accept, those looking for quality would have to increase their offer, it's as simple as that. You want to enforce a minimum rate? Simple, don't work for less.

IMHO it is wrong for people to try and say that buyers cannot ask for work to be completed at whatever rate they want, or that writers cannot work for less than a certain amount. It is up to the buyers and sellers, and I for one will never give my support to taking the freedom or the power of choice away from the buyers and sellers. At the moment everyone here is pretty much free to work how they want and that is how it should stay.

Slavery is the opposite of freedom, the irony is that if you are trying to dictate what people can or cannot do then you are the one taking freedom away and creating slaves to your ideals.

 

I am not completely sold on this policy. For starters some of you have been around here a lot longer than I. I have been a member for just over 1 years, from what I can tell you DP gave me my start in content creation or writing for money. I worked for pennies or beer money as some call it. I worked for these slave wages. I am not saying that DP has to put in a policy that states nothing less than 1 cent per word. This practice might actually deter people from coming here. I believe that the writers here need to be educated and realize that they do not have to accept these low or slave wages. They can make more. Anyone making less than a penny needs to be informed that they can make more. They should at least raise it to a penny.

Writing is just like any other business. So, I can not blame buyers for coming here in hopes of finding a writer for the bargain basement price. After all its about the bottom line. But, if the writer agrees to work for the crap then its really their business that is going to fail. Eventually the only ones left here are going to be the quality writers who want to make a buck instead of a penny.

So, instead of picketing DP I say lets all troll the BST section and find writers who are charging the slave wages and get them to raise their rates.

 

I think this an extremely important issue.

What if I were to come in with say 100 grand in place, wipe out all the lower price orders by taking every low price bid offer under $5. Then I feed back a perfectly good seeming article that I pay someone to do cranking out articles. My software programs could actually have a person do a 500 word original in 5 minutes. I am sure to get 2 people here that would work in comfort and no sweat at say $25.00 hour.

 

I think some of you are missing the point entirely.

First off DP is not a democracy, so any "freedom" you have here is a privilege and not a right. If the owners/admins/mods decide to put a minimum in place, that's ultimately their decision. It would be quality control and no more.

Those of you claiming we want to take freedom away are fooling yourself. You cannot take away what you never had. You post by the rules of DP and get infractions if you break the rules, or could even be banned. So again what freedom?

There are several factors to consider here:

1. Starting writers suckered into being underpaid, due to the fact that buyers are being conditioned here, that $ 0.15/100 is a normal rate.
We need to start lifting those writers up. That's the responsibility of those that have been around long enough to know better. This is completely in our hands and has nothing to do with DP as such.

2. Quality control. We all love DP for various reasons, but most of us started out here. Personally I started out elsewhere(Which might have been my rescue) at a place where $1.10 was the going rate(Yes fixed). When I came out here, I already had my minimum rate fixed at $ 1/100 so I never fell for it. This being said, I think DP is an excellent board, yet thanks to the practices in the BST area, it is getting a reputation of being the bottom of the barrel. This is unfair to the good writers on here, and also not good for DP. Setting a minimum, no matter how low will go a long way, to improving on that.

3. There are several other places for writers to get quality jobs, with minimums in place, and I am talking about minimums like $ 0.02 per word. Those places have risen in popularity rapidly, and are living proof that such a minimum can actually be a good thing as they now attract a better class of buyer who are served by an excellent class of writers. Am I saying that should be the same for DP? By no means. I am merely stating to have a minimum in place that will prevent starting writers from being exploited. If anything, it will do away with the unethical content buyers, and leave us with the good ones. Personally I think that would be a good thing for all involved.

4. Sometimes, the strong have got to make the stand for the weak. Not to hold their hand, but to at least provide a foundation, an environment where they have the chance to become strong. Current conditions keep starting writers down, and make it exceptionally hard to climb out of. When you start out with rates that are to low, you will find it very hard to raise them.

With a public stand, by putting a minimum rate in place for all to see, you give those writers something to hold on to. It does not even have to be policed, just put up there in writing. Whatever happens behind closed doors(read PM) is between buyer and seller, but those that cave in to the rates will then have nobody else to blame but themselves, as the minimum they should ask, is clearly stated.

In real life you have minimum wages in place in most of the civilized countries. The US as well as the European Union have legislation in place, ensuring fair trade.

I fail to see why it would be so wrong for DP to ensure fair trading on their board as well.

We as writers that have grown beyond the $ 1/100 rate have to take our responsibility, and educate the sincere writers, while DP could lend a helping hand, by ensuring trades are fair. If we all do our part we can do this, but it takes all parties involved.

What's left will be the unethical buyers and the word rearranges and IMO that's a match made in heaven, as those two deserve eachother.

Once again thank you for allowing me to rant

 

Aye Aye Sir
Really impressive man.
Cheers,

 

I started this thread, so I should remain impartial to all your comments. I should only be tallying the “ayes” and the “nays,” but then again I’m a writer, so I think you all know which side of the divide I stand.

I’ll reserve my thoughts, arguments, personal opinions until the last vote is in. So far the ayes have it by a mile.

Thank you guys for participating… keep your votes coming before I close this thread this weekend and release the final tally.

Remember, writers and buyers are encouraged to pitch in.

 

I will go with a ayes if DP decides that it is best. I have nothing against it. Kraven makes a great argument. This place as with any other place online is not a democracy. There are rules in place and those rules are usually at the sole discretion of the boards amdins and/mods. This place is no different. Some might actually say its a bit worse than others. There are some mods on here that hand out infractions like their handing out Halloween candy. Thats for another discussion.

Well, if it happens I still believe the buyers here will find another place to shop. Once again you cant really blame the buyers, they are always looking for the lowest cost and the highest return on their investment. The problem I see is when they pay low and get a low return. But, these buyers are just crap buyers anyways looking for filler crap.

 

No one wants to belong to crap buyers here, is there?
And I agree--Kraven deserves a star. Do we have one DP mods?

I wouldn't be surprised if they give me one for starting this tread... I hope not, please, DP mods?

 

Freedom does not reside only in republics, democracies or on forums on the internet. We are using this tool called a DP forum and the freedom you take is basically regulated by common sense. That is a great source of freedom, I might add.



Freedom is also regulated by the common understanding of it. Basically, freedom is the ability to say; "NO". If you can not say "NO", you do not have freedom.


Right now it is important to say "NO" to more regulation of this place. Use the common sense you have been given to choose less regulation of your life. Use the Wizard´s wisdom and start making what you are worth based on what you settle for.

 

Common sense gets overshadowed in a major way by that one eyed monster called greed.

There is nothing wrong with making money, making profit, and cutting great deals, but(And there is always a but) with business comes business ethics. Throw those out the door and you have exploitation and that is what is going on right here, right now, and needs to stop.

You can be sure they won't stop or leave if asked nicely, so we need the powers that be, to lend a hand.

Crap attracts crap. With crap buyers come crap writers(word re-arrangers) and DP would be a better place without both of them.

At this point a self respecting writer would be ashamed to put this place on his or her resume as a place where he or she got experience when approaching a respectable business. That is a shame and I am hoping through this we can change that.

 

Or... we need learn to realize the truth, that WE are the "powers that be" here. Again, use common sense, and anyone can realize that if someone "defends themself" against the "them", someone is going to win. That is all that many people are saying here; protect yourself, and it will not be necessary for DP, or anyone else, to protect you. If it is not necessary,
why do it ?

Listen to DyAdvisor: LINK
​

Trusting in others to protect you means you are giving someone else a job, and they can rightly expect a wage from it. What will DP expect in return for protecting their users ? It comes back to this no matter how many times
you look at it. Plus, DyAdvisor above is right. He knows much more about this than the average person here.

 

Seriously mods, why are you not backing this? Do you want people to get ripped off or do you want to make trading fairer? It would be seriously easy to implement, have a banner at the top of the Content Creation sub-forum stating a minimum price per word and to get rid of PM system abusers, create dud accounts and create a trap to catch the bad buyers and sellers. It would be so easy. I'd be happy to do this for you, for free as it would make the forum better.

Please let's not get dragged down in tangent discussion on freedom blah blah and that is such a round about time wasting way of talking about this topic.

 

DP can expect a better image, established reputation, and less crap to ban, infract or whatever.
Like I posted in the original thread. Adding the rule takes less then 5 seconds, that can't cost the world. I also stated in this thread that I don't even expect them to police it. I just would like to have it up there in writing for reasons I already mentioned above in my previous reply.

In that case re-read what the good wizard posted in this thread.