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Fiscal Cliff Impending//GOP is Missing In Action

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by earlpearl, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #21
    If people really want to make a deal they have to act maturely. They can't bullshit around with last minute propaganda blasts that try to assign blame.

    The reality is that most of America wants a solution and not the fiscal cliff issue that will automatically raise taxes on everyone and simultaneously cut enormous expenditures from the govt in a way that could cut employment drastically and immediately and hasten a return of a recession.

    That is the big issue.

    So here is a reflection of how the congressional players came out of the very last meeting to try and stave off the fiscal cliff situation:

    One thing it describes is that Obama DID NOT make a last minute offer that the GOP propagandists and their schoolyard brat mouthpieces try and portray:

    The GOP posited and propagandized on that issue, trying to assign blame. It just didn't occur in reality.

    Here is a piece that describes comments from the active participants:

    As a business person I take a look at all our little businesses/SMB's. We sell a variety of services to folks of different groups. We have relatively few sales where we seem to be selling into incredibly well off folks with unlimited financial resources.


    As a business person if taxes go up we see that it will cut our revenues, just as it would cut the revenues of the vast majority of businesses selling into the vast middle class.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 29, 2012 IP
  2. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #22
    Earl, you're such a tool.
     
    Corwin, Dec 29, 2012 IP
  3. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #23
    lol ?
     
    grpaul, Dec 29, 2012 IP
  4. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #24
    I find it to be so hilarious that you see Obama as being this really easy going simple person to work with.. Gotta love it!

    The reality is that it was a wrestling match getting them off of the $250k mark which is pretty pathetic. A person that makes $250k is NOT the same as someone making $1mill, but to people like you and the left, they are the same.


    How about them wanting to raise the estate tax to 45 - 55%. Do you honestly think the government deserves that money?
     
    grpaul, Dec 30, 2012 IP
  5. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #25
    The big issue is that all the Democrats want to do is tax-and-spend.

    They've done it with Republican Presidents before - with Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. The Democrats raise taxes in return for "promised" cuts to happen later, and then those spending cuts never materialize. It happened with Reagan. And then with Bush I, after the Democrats persuaded him to break his "no new taxes" pledge in return for tax cuts to be decided later, those tax cuts never happened. The Democrats lied.

    It's happening again - the reason why the Republicans don't want to move on increasing taxes is that's the only solution the Democrats are offering. NO SPENDING CUTS! No balanced budget.

    "This Week with George Stephanopoloulosuslosuslososls" had a great discussion on the back story of how we got to where we are. It's the Democrats same old plan. First, the Democrats (Pelosi) offered to raise taxes on anyone making over $1 million and the Republicans said Yes. Then the Democrats lowered that to $400K and the Republicans said Yes. Then Reid lowered that to $250K and the Republicans said "No". Now, the Democrats had their P.R. line. Now it's up to tools like Earl to blindly follow in step. According to Earl, anyone who doesn't kiss Obama's ass all the time, every time, is a "right-wing extremist". To Earl, independent voters that don't think the way he does deserve his hatred. Whopee!
     
    Corwin, Dec 30, 2012 IP
  6. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #26
    GR: I know all you do is throw sarcasm and express your political leanings. Nothing ever backed up with facts.

    Here is a little fact for you. Since Obama first started pushing the plan on raising taxes on folks with over $250,000(that is married) in income and keeping Bush tax cut rates on all those under that it specifically has been on families with "taxable income" of $250,000---not $250,000. Small item. It might roughly relate to $300,000 of income and $50,000 in write offs before your tax form has the taxable line item.

    Frankly, for once you have stated something that has made sense. Yup $250,000 in income isn't $1 million in income. Not by a long shot.

    I've some experience. At $250,000 in an expensive area to live you can live very comfortably. But you are not rich. If you have an expensive mortgage with a big house, it cuts your disposable income. Constantly trade up for new cars...it cuts your disposable income. Send your kids to expensive private schools--it costs a lot. If you have any type of extraordinary medical expenses in your family its going to cost a lot and your private insurance is going to soar.

    But you can live very very very well. After all it is 5 times the income of the average household income in the US. It goes a long way to a comfortable life. If you aren't stupid with your money it gives you disposable income and money you can save for old age.

    At $1 million you are living well. Join a country club. Lots of disposable income. etc etc etc. I do know some people with incomes at around that level and are swimming in debt. When the recession hit they got burned badly. They made stupid investment/gambling choices and spent like drunken sailors.

    Obama has been calling for this change for about 1 year. There is nothing new in this proposal. All the other proposals about cut offs for increases back to the Clinton era tax rates all started to get thrown around after the election.

    Why a cut off at $250,000? Here is why. There are 3 ways to cut the federal deficit:

    A. Cut govt expenditures
    B. Raise taxes
    C. Grow the economy like a sun of a bitch.


    Obama would like to do all 3. He would also simply like to see the hits spread around to all people. Most of the cuts the GOP, the vast vast vast majority of them will ALL hit people with little income, people on subsistance incomes, folks who are worse off. Raising tax rates on the wealthy....people with disposable income who can afford it is the simplest answer.

    Why $250,000 as the cut off? I suppose there was a helluva of a lot of math and economics behind coming up with that figure. Limiting tax increases on folks at incomes about $500,000 or $1 million would be bring in too little in revenues on the "increase taxes side". Isn't that a simple answer? You want more details? Look it up.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 30, 2012 IP
  7. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #27
    Ha ha. corwimp, after I entirely debunked your combination of spreading a lie and tying that lie to blame ....there you go again, with more rewriting of actual history and facts.

    Think I'll stop responding. Its not just that you are a waste, your a repetitive waste.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 30, 2012 IP
  8. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #28
    Earl, you never answered the question. Did/do you believe Obama wants a negotiated solution to this? I've already pointed out it doesn't benefit him politically to negotiate. Now if he could get complete capitulation, that is different, but as you pointed out, getting a negotiated settlement means making concessions.
     
    Obamanation, Dec 30, 2012 IP
  9. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #29
    That is a question that only a tea party adherent would ask, O-Nation. Each time the GOP folks gave up and went home Obama brought them back to negotiate.

    simple point the GOP keeps quitting. Obama keeps working at a negotiation.

    So the GOP quits on the whole deal and Obama brings them back to continue to negotiate, which they are doing now.

    The tea party takes reality and turns it into some kind of fantasy radical perspective by virtue of such obviously stupid questions.

    and btw: Happy New Year.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 31, 2012 IP
  10. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #30
    Bloomberg has reported that Biden shoved Harry Reid out of the way and has offered to only raise taxes on those making over $450,000 a year. As I wrote above, Republicans already agreed to that and they have said "Yes".

    Obama really can't get anything done without VP Biden. After all, Biden has something Obama doesn't have - 36 years of history with the Congress and everyone trusts him. Anytime Obama has gotten something done, it wasn't him, it was Biden.

    True. At $250,000 you can raise three kids while putting money away for their college, providing you live in the suburbs. You have breathing room, but you are not rich by any means.

    Well, not really. Country club memberships are six-figure now.

    Also, Earl, may I politely point out that you are forgetting something - at both these income levels you also assume family obligations for debts of brothers, sisters, parents, cousins. Life sometimes comes at others hard and it's comforting to know family is there to help you out.

    You and I agree, Obama would like to do all three But no one in Congress want to cut government expenditures. Neither party. As previously discussed, Congress exercises power by spending money. Nobody gets re-elected by cutting spending, you are re-elected by RAISING spending. So whomever allows their spending programs to get cut loses power.

    Yes, but Earl, in this global economy the wealthy can move their money offshore. that means you can raise taxes on the wealthy and actually take in less in taxes.

    Pot, meet Kettle. Again.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
    Corwin, Dec 31, 2012 IP
  11. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #31
    earlpearl, Dec 31, 2012 IP
  12. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #32
    ha ha ha, yuuppppppppp!

    $620B in tax hikes, $15B in spending cuts - don't have to be a genius to see what they're motive is here.. The FACT of the matter here, is that this deal does absolutely nothing to control our budget / spending problems.

    It's sad that we are stuck dealing with people that are supporting a president that wants to raise taxes on the rich because he's been too incompetent to do his job for the past 4 years.

    [​IMG]
     
    grpaul, Jan 1, 2013 IP
  13. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #33
    Its true, GR the fiscal Cliff agreement reached by the Senate has nothing to do with a serious effort at knocking out the budget deficit. It has simply been an artificially created political drama caused by the crazed GOP in Congress from 2011 that couldn't deal with the debt ceiling. You remember something Congress has raised continuously until the tea party radicals got into power.

    So they created a scenario that is so severe it theoretically would force Congress to act. Well we still don't know. Now that the Senate has passed it the radical GOP is having a secret closed door session to discuss it. If they go all typically political radical extreme again they will push the US into a recession, and simultaneously raise taxes on everyone.

    It is quite possible. This last huge recession arose under GOP decision making. Who knows even with higher tax revenues a big big recession could grow the debt even more. Hopefully at least 20-25 members of the teaparty//Al queda pary will figure that out and vote with brains.
     
    earlpearl, Jan 1, 2013 IP
  14. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #34
    That sounds like the understatement of the year.


    Sounds like a prime example of why the Senate is so loathed by the American people. Primary season is coming. We'll see some fresh faces from Tea Party Republicans in their primaries.
     
    Obamanation, Jan 1, 2013 IP
  15. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #35
    Yes, Earl it's all the big meanie head Republicans fault..

    Pretty pathetic that you can't even see (admit) that the Republicans were put in a bad situation from the start, but not surprising that you put all of the blame on them for the delay... But yeah, we are the ones that struggle with the facts.. Got it.

    $30B for unemployment, $15B in spending cuts and we should all be jumping for joy..


    [​IMG]

    Standards meet toilet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
    grpaul, Jan 1, 2013 IP
  16. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #36
    Looks to me like a good healthy number of Republicans voted to raise taxes on the wealthy. I wonder how long before the enforcer wings of the Republican Party go after them to replace them with hearty healthy sane tea party candidates. Christine O'Donnell comes to mind. She was a hearty tea party candidate who also happened to believe in witches.
     
    earlpearl, Jan 2, 2013 IP
  17. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #37
    Witches are real. So what. It was always my understanding that religious beliefs were constitutionally protected. Then again, it seems the professional left hates the constitution. No surprise there.
     
    Obamanation, Jan 2, 2013 IP
  18. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #38
    It looks like you drank way too much New Years Eve and the day after. That is impressive O_Nation. You support tea party candidates who believe in witches.

    I really wish you would lay off the sauce for a day or two.
     
    earlpearl, Jan 2, 2013 IP
  19. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #39
    I never said I was a Christine O'Donnell supporter. I just said someone who dabbled with the Wicca as a youth is no less tarnished by her associations than the leader of the "Choom Gang". People do stupid things when they are young, and I am 100% certain you are no different.


    I just finished sleeping off my hangover. I drank enough single malt over Christmas/New Years to give up the sauce for another 345 days, though its snowing in the mountains, so we shall see how long that new years resolution lasts. Somehow, I sense great hypocrisy in receiving such advice from you, in spite of a lack of hard evidence to back the feeling.
     
    Obamanation, Jan 2, 2013 IP
  20. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #40
    [video=youtube;9tuztHPq95o]http://youtu.be/9tuztHPq95o[/video]

    Gotta keep pinning groups of individuals against each other, and keep that class warfare going!

    I love the dramatic set up from 1:47 to 1:50 then goes in the for kill: "but also asks the wealthiest American's to contribute and pay their fair share."

    Can someone please explain to me how the idea to keep raising taxes on the wealthy is "progressive" and "balanced"......? I'd love to hear the logic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
    grpaul, Jan 3, 2013 IP