FISA passes, Obama Betrays the Left, DP is silent

Where are the DPers who are upset with the total overrun of the 4th Amendment by the Congress and Senate? The FISA bill which immunizes companies which have been spying on Americans illegally, and now expands the ability of the Executive to spy on Americans.

No one cares?

Well, a lot of the hardcore left is pissed off. Obama has sold out on another campaign promise, and is quickly becoming a laughingstock for anyone interested in integrity.

FISA: Why I Can No Longer Vote for Barack Obama

Excerpt

Barack Obama lost my vote today. I was never a rah-rah supporter, yet prior to the FISA bill vote today, I believed that I could suck it up and vote for whoever ended up being the eventual Democratic Party nominee. For the first time in my adult life, I’m faced with the unhappy prospect of staying home on November 4th.


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Why has he lost my vote? Quite simply: trust. If I can’t trust a self-described constitutional scholar to defend basic constitutional principles, even with a vote on the losing side of a constitutional issue, how can I trust him with (for example) future Supreme Court nominations? After today, I can’t.

I know that Obama’s FISA vote won’t mean a thing to his hard core supporters. They’ll make excuses the same way that George W. Bush’s sycophants make excuses for him. “Oh, he had to vote this way, or the GOP would paint him as soft on national security.”​

Liberal Blogger and Constitutional Lawyer Glen Greenwald

Congress votes to immunize lawbreaking telecoms, legalize warrantless eavesdropping

Excerpts

Today's coverup of surveillance crimes and Barack Obama

More Obama betrayal.


MSNBC Analysis (Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmot0aZy4MM

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Where's McCain stand on this?

 

Same as Obama!

McBama!



Flux, what do you think will be the 3rd campaign promise Obama breaks?

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Don't know. What's the first promise broken, taking public financing?
Obama's flip flopping like a fish out of water, no question about it.

 

Yup!

I don't have the heart to bust your chops about this. I like you more than I like Obama.

 

I'm troubled by this as well, as I am with Obama's shifting since winning the nomination. So much, I am reconsidering voting for him - to be honest, all of them suck, and my belief that Obama can manage the political tides well enough to yield a net positive is proving tenuous.

That said, to this issue, I don't expect any explanation to serve - I certainly don't expect any credible points to be given an open hearing on this thread - useful as it is for Guerilla's propaganda.

Nevertheless: McCain didn't have the balls to be present on this vote, and Clinton, if my read is right, played the game quite well - I would say, jockeying, perhaps, for yet another rethink by the supers for even this election. Meanwhile, my read of it is that Obama has been clear on the issue since at least January of this year: he supports the notion of the intelligence gathering necessary, as he sees it, while decrying the abuses engendered by this administration's policies of the last 8 years. He opposes the retroactive immunity provisions and the bill is not yet in final form. Here's Obama's response:

The man has taken some serious lumps, on his own website, and accepted them. He has been transparent on this. His stand has been consistent on this issue from day 1. (Go to his website - February speech, and others at least as early as 01/08).

Like I said, I don't expect the subtleties of the matter to be given a good faith hearing, because that would not serve the agenda. Anyone sincerely interested, take a closer look.

 

What propaganda? I've been saying for 6 months that Obama is a shill and a fraud.

I even like YOU more than I like Obama.

 

Guerilla, quite honestly, as the very notion of compromise in any form is anathema to you, anybody who is in the world of politics - where things actually get done - is subject to your talking points, what I would call your propaganda. This is my opinion. That said, I don't regret your bringing this things up, regardless of your reasons. They're important.

Politics stink, and principles get compromised as a matter of course, by definition - you have disparate power groups, representing disparate interests, and anything that actually gets done in the real world is never "principled" because it's always a zero sum game between idealized positions. That said, I think one does have to ask, "how far a stretch, before a break?" And much of what I've seen since Obama's nomination was wrapped up has given me pause.

I don't like you more than Obama. He's so dreaaaaaamy.

I need to ask - anyone - I actually am having a hard time seeing what actually took place today, and I admit I might just be off on this. Is the bill in final form? Is telecom immunity locked and loaded, or is the bill not yet in final form?

 

He's flipped on other things. Like how his language has changed on withdrawing from Iraq, saying his views on it will continue to be "refined".
He's also seeming harder on Iran lately.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4782336050015229469&q=obama+iran&ei=jqN2SMSrK5Xk4AKF8NWfCw

On his broken promise on taking public financing, I'm not sure what I think about that. I mean, he did flip flop, but on the other hand it doesn't bother me that much because his campaign will be funded mainly by small grass roots supporters.

 

I can't stand most politicians. Obama is just making sure he has as much power as possible if he the reaches office. Goes to show he is in it for the power and not to serve the citizens.

 

Yeah. The little guy. Like

Goldman Sachs $601,480

University of California $488,159

JPMorgan Chase & Co $373,507
Citigroup Inc $371,054
UBS AG $370,850

National Amusements Inc $332,089

Lehman Brothers $330,760

Harvard University $325,424
Google Inc $321,964
Sidley Austin LLP $305,345
Skadden, Arps et al $281,163

Morgan Stanley $274,213
Time Warner $268,227

Jones Day $251,250
Exelon Corp $237,311
University of Chicago $230,175
Latham & Watkins $228,026
Microsoft Corp $223,895
Wilmerhale Llp $222,080

General Electric $210,329

 

Yeah but those aren't the kind of contributors that has had him breaking fund raising records all through the campaign. His bread and butter is small internet donors because of their numbers and the fact that they can give and give and give numerous times.

 

guerilla posted this list to show how Obama did not get his contributions from the little guy, clearly implying that these corporations gave those numbers.

Yet, he knows full well that the numbers represent the contributions of individual employees, owners, etc. Of course, that does not fit his story here, so he puts forth numbers in a manner intended to deceive. Par for the course.

This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2008 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates. SOURCE

 

Obama is no different. People have the illusion that somehow he will change things just cause he speaks well, but they are so wrong. Today is proof that he is just another corrupt scumbag that has no respect for the constitution, liberty and privacy. He should be ashamed for voting this way on this issue. What a bastard!!!

 

I think that conclusion is being more than a bit harsh.

 

I read about it and honestly don't have the words to describe what I feel about it without being banned from DP

 

This pic is pretty much as it is.

Why do Democrats think that in order to get to the White House they have to emulate the Republicans?

If I was an American I would be seriously considering staying at home come the Autumn voting day...

 

It's simple, if he had voted against it he would be painted as weak, no matter what the facts of the case were.

 

Do you think that's the reason he voted for it? It seems to me that this could lose him more votes than gain him votes. How many of the undecideds will vote for him because of this?

 

There's an article in todays Guardian which brings a lot of this into focus

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/11/barackobama.uselections2008