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First Page Guaranteed??

Discussion in 'General Business' started by tsptom, Apr 13, 2004.

  1. #1
    Has anybody heard of this group? They "guarantee" you 1st page placement at a reasonable fee. Sounds fishy. Any feedback appreciated.

    121limited.com
     
    tsptom, Apr 13, 2004 IP
  2. john_loch

    john_loch Rodent Slayer

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    #2
    Sure !

    I can guarantee you first page placement too, for the search term "bg fvyudiefcgfuoregfvureo" if you like !

    Maybe, with a bit of luck, I can even get you in the top 20 !

    Hell, I can even do it on the Googly thang too.

    I know I sound sarcastic - but then, it's not directed at you, it's directed at the idiots who make these promises without clarification - I've seen plenty of them. As Google demonstrated last year - even the most successful and knowledgable seo specialists can't guarantee anything.. know why ?

    Google is interested in money - oh yes - money through results, but money just the same - even GOOGLE (or execs who work for them) respond with - we make no promises - (googles response to webmasters who complained about thier unannounced changed to the way they rank results).

    So, to put it simply - here's how I think you should proceed:

    a. specify the search terms - be very clear about them. Research them yourself.
    b. Ask them HOW they're going to achieve this for you, with demonstrable examples.
    c. if they guarantee ranking, get it in writing, and don't pay them until said outcomes are achieved.
    d. maintenance clause: it must be maintainable for a specific period of time (assume 6 mths - a year) for a specific cost. No/falling rank, no pay.

    e. FULL DISCLOSURE of how the ranking was achieved. All inventory - all links, PR of these links pages, the works. Don't allow corners to be cut. If they're not willing to disclose all in detail, don't use them. It's that simple.

    You'd be amazed at how many fools believe owning a copy of joe bobs position this or trellians optimize that makes them an seo expert.

    Remember FULL disclosure. Anything less - go elsewhere. You'll have questions, ask them without hesitation. If their answers don't make sense, don't use them. Phew.. I think that sort of says it !

    In reality - guaranteeing ranking is not possible. It involves risk. Make sure the risk isn't yours !

    I can only think of one person in the seo field who is open and up front enough to give honest (unbiased guidance) though there are no doubt others - (perhaps even Shawn - the guy who runs this forum) who might offer you further guidance - and clarify the process for you. You can try SEO Guy. Just search google for "SEO Expert" and click on the first link.

    No doubt there'll be a number of folks out there who wear the hat well whom I know nothing of. No doubt they'll stop by and build on my commentary :)
     
    john_loch, Apr 13, 2004 IP
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  3. Foxy

    Foxy Chief Natural Foodie

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    #3
    Nice commentary John_Loch

    I can get you Number 1!! Not just the 1st page on one of the 6 SEs shown!!!

    Notice that I specify one - they don't - but thats what they mean - and that 1 will be Altavista

    If I remember rightly Altavista does a quick "burst" to the front of the queue and then you fade away into oblivion - just like Altavista has

    So if you want to be conned into paying away to someon else do it - on the other hand if you want to try yourself go set up your page for the keywords you want [don't use anything too competitive], if I remember rightly- its been that long - you don't need back links, and submit it to altavista then do the search on that keyword over a period of about 1-2 weeks on altavista - and there you will see your keyword and site appearing.....and then disappearing ;)
     
    Foxy, Apr 13, 2004 IP
  4. Mr T

    Mr T Guest

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    #4
    They could also just put you in AdWords - you'd appear on the front page of Google, but its probably not a viable way forward, plus you could do that yourself.

    Dont believe ANY promises concerning SEO, its not possible.
     
    Mr T, Apr 14, 2004 IP
  5. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #5
    Most of it has been covered above, but I will add this.

    I believe in absolute transparency in what I am doing for a client, (so do my online friends and associates) just as John said above, you deserve absolute transparency.

    I will have to be careful in my response so as not to cross the line into libellous comments, (so feel free to edit Shawn, it
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Apr 14, 2004 IP
  6. ephricon

    ephricon Peon

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    #6

    Thats absolutely priceless!!!


    Here's another very contrarian take on this idea of gauranteed rankings (and not at all any endorsement of this company, i've not even visited their site):

    For the right price and the right situation, I would gladly offer my clients a 100% money back gaurantee for top 5 rankings for their keywords. I would do this after looking at the existing competition, figuring in my skill, and concluding if I could or could not get their keywords ranked as such. If I think I probably can I'd do it. Grant it, I would want to charge more for this guarantee than if I just did their SEO w/o a gaurantee, but knowing my skill level I would only agree to gaurantee placement for terms that I felt I had a good 80% chance or better of getting into said position.

    Maybe this isn't so much your typical gaurantee - but is some insurance for the client. Most of the time when I explain to them the bit about no one can gaurantee rankings they understand, but still fear they have no insurance - no way to know they aren't just throwing their money out the window (and many have had bad experiences b4 with sketchy SEO firms). If it makes sense financially and was something I felt confident about I'd gladly gaurantee something I think I can do... Just some thoughts...
     
    ephricon, Apr 14, 2004 IP
  7. T0PS3O

    T0PS3O Feel Good PLC

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    #7
    Speaking of the devils...

    Received a call today from Alex Doyle Associates who offered me GUARANTEED no 1 position in 27 search engines.

    Hahaha was my reaction ( I just read this post and immediately the phone rings ).

    So I asked the guy how it is done. He didn't know so put the sales director on. After a long conversation and plenty of questions and an email with the contract and terms & conditions it looks like they will actually redo your page for available key word phrases and keep them number 1 for 12 months. If it drops for over 10 days you get your money refunded in full.

    It all sounded obviously too good to be true so I asked for examples.
    Google world wide - body kits uk - comes up with number 1 ccmotosport.co.uk which is their client apparently. A quick look on the page sees how they got it there, with blatant key word stuffing but apparantly allowed by google. It wasn't #1 in yahoo though and I can't be bothered to check all the other SE's. Checking overture, just to make sure it wasn't some stupid phrase no one would ever use, shows it's a fair choice I suppose.

    I'm not planning to use this simply because I don't like their style and you need to provide full FTP details and can't update the pages without their consent. And I don't believe they can keep their promise even when it all seems pretty legit. They can't even get their own page on G's first page :s And the contract was a bit Mickey Mouse, with spelling mistakes and arbitrary statements. Heck, I'd rather do it myself anyway!

    Just wanted to share this to show the sort of monkey's out there. Thanks for the tips, they made it a pleasure sussing them out.

    Why pay someone else, SEO DIY!

    If anyone would want to offer a guarantee I agree with ephricon's tactics. Top 5 or Top 10 can be achieved for quite a few economically viable key phrases.
     
    T0PS3O, Apr 14, 2004 IP
  8. Foxy

    Foxy Chief Natural Foodie

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    #8
    Absolute classic stuff everybody

    Speaks for itself!!!!

    Need I say more?

    Don't think so
     
    Foxy, Apr 14, 2004 IP
  9. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #9
    I agree. Thanks everyone.
     
    tsptom, Apr 16, 2004 IP
  10. Doobey

    Doobey Guest

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    #10
    I am an ex-employee of Alex Doyle Associates Ltd and I have read what has been said here.
    Firstly I'd like to point out that what you have said about the company is completely untrue. Alex Doyle Associates Ltd are not a bunch of monkeys or con men etc. They are a company that are made up of different people from different backgrounds with different skills and experience. I no longer work for Alex Doyle Associates due to personal circumstances. However, I know that the service that they provide works. FTP access is not always given to the company. This has never posed as a problem because the page(s) that were to be optimised would, in these cases, be downloaded and the changes would be made and forwarded on to the customer so that they could add the work themselves. Many of the clients I dealt with were satisfied clients and in most cases went on to renew their service time for another twelve months. Many of the clients would contact us and ask us for extra search terms because the ones Alex Doyle Associates had provided initially had done so well, they wanted more traffic going to their websites and in turn, increasing their amount of business.
    I understand that many of you have had bad experiences in the past when it comes to Search Engine Optimisation companies, but I can honestly say that Alex Doyle Associates Ltd are a legitimate company that provide a legitimate service and can do what they say they do because I've been there, I've played a part in it and I've seen a website that hasn't even been in the first ten pages of a search engine optimised and gain a serious amount of top listings and number one listings with my very own eyes.
     
    Doobey, Apr 19, 2004 IP
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  11. GuyFromChicago

    GuyFromChicago Permanent Peon

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    #11
    It
     
    GuyFromChicago, Apr 19, 2004 IP
  12. Foxy

    Foxy Chief Natural Foodie

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    #12
    So go on then show us this one at number one - The Alex Doyle associates page

    and when you explain that these people are absolutely very nice people doing an honest business why is it you do not say that the techniques used ar3e absolutely spam free?
     
    Foxy, Apr 20, 2004 IP
  13. t2dman

    t2dman Peon

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    #13
    It was rather easy to get high pre November 2003, but since then it has not been easy to get new sites listed high on Google. Top for everything for the mother site Auckland Restaurants Guide - www.Time2Dine.co.nz, but for clients it is now soo easy to overoptimise on Google and get dumped from the listings for a term. Easy enough to overoptimise that the whole business of SEO is very risky indeed.
     
    t2dman, Apr 20, 2004 IP
  14. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #14
    I don't know what you guys are talking about

    anyone who is confident in their skill can guanttee whatever they want

    why would you not want guarenteed top 10 rankings

    I havn't really done a lot of seo work but I have always gaurenteed top 10 rankings

    if I am not confident of success then i shouldn't be taking people's money in the first place

    what are going to do give money to someone who says "I'll do my best , but if your site doesn't rank its not my fault"
     
    ferret77, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  15. ephricon

    ephricon Peon

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    #15
    we aren't really talking about easy low-competitive terms. anyone can simply do on page optimization for most of those terms and get top 10 rankings easily within a month or two.

    its another ballgame to gaurantee top 10 for highly competitive terms - this type of thing requires constant maintenance and actions and focuses more on content and link building than just on page stuff.
     
    ephricon, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  16. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #16
    whats the difference?

    any one in business can guarnetee anything they want, people get guarentees in almost every business transacation why should seo be any different

    If company is confident they can deliver a top ranking for a competitve term why shouldn't thye guarentee it

    why should a client have to pay for something that has not been obtained

    I don't think any seo would be smart to guarentee number 1 , but thye should at least guaretee something reasonable like top 20 , or 10
     
    ferret77, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  17. GuyFromChicago

    GuyFromChicago Permanent Peon

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    #17
    You can
     
    GuyFromChicago, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  18. ephricon

    ephricon Peon

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    #18
    I think perhaps we are talking about two different types of "guarantee"...

    - There is one thing to be said about offering a money-back guarantee to appeal to your clients and give them some reassurance that they are getting something for their money. In my opinion it is fine to say "if we don't get you top 10 rankings we'll give you your money back". That's a business decision each of us makes. I probably wouldn't do it - but for the right client and right paycheck sure I would take that risk in some cases....

    - Secondly, there's the notion of "guaranteeing" the client something as to say that it is fact that you will get those top 10 results. This NO ONE can truly guarantee, since we dont own the search engines. Thus, in good faith no one can just say "we guarantee top 10 rankings" and say that there is 0% chance you wont get those rankings. This would just be unethical business.

    The former, however, I would have to say is okay. That is more of a warranty or specification of what you will deliver. If you are confident you can deliver than go right ahead and say that you'll deliver top 10 or they don't have to pay. That's fine.

    *** But make sure they know that this doesn't mean 100% they will get top 10, just that they don't have to pay you if they dont' get top 10.
     
    ephricon, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  19. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #19
    I can guaretee my skills if I want

    In fact i do it with anyone who I work with

    Its a gambling thing , you figure the chance of success and then go for it

    If I fail I don't get paid

    its that simple, if someone said they wanted to be top ten for "web hosting"

    it would be out of my legaue, but if I had ten employees , hundreds of websites in my control, and large budget I could possible guarentee it.

    ok, I gues it would be more of a no-pay gaurentee then actually rankigs guarnetee
     
    ferret77, Apr 27, 2004 IP
  20. ephricon

    ephricon Peon

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    #20

    Exactly!

    You can do anything you want with your own business. If you want to offer the money-back thing to assure the customer than go for it!

    BUT, to run an ethical business you'll let them know no one can truly gaurantee that there is a 100% chance they will get their rankings. The best you can do is say you are willing to give them money back if not - that should reassure them. It would be unethical to mislead them into thinking you truly have that kind of control over the rankings - as only the SEs truly do.
     
    ephricon, Apr 27, 2004 IP