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Firefox vs IE Differences?

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by mjblake, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. rive0108

    rive0108 Peon

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    #41
    Dude thats an msdn webblog, by users such as me and you, not Microsoft themselves. its like a member blogging about something here in Digital Point.

    Wang is the designer of "gazelle".

    Look at this:

    http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Goin...System-Architecture-and-Web-Browser-Security/
    SEMrush
     
    rive0108, Feb 16, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #42
    You didn't see who signed that post:
    It is THE blog of the Internet Explorer development team.
    The only thing you are showing is links to how the thing works but nowhere do you point to anything from Microsoft that says they are or will use it to replace IE. In fact, the link I gave you specifically points out that Microsoft doesn't want anyone to think that and if MS disagrees with that statement, I'm sure CNET would be willing to publish a retraction. For that matter ArsTechnica would need to do the same.

    Pulled from your last link:
    and one of the comments:
     
    drhowarddrfine, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  3. mjblake

    mjblake Peon

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    #43
    If I may stray to the original post for a moment...

    Man, you guys are pretty harsh -

    "But if you 'need' dragonfly or firebug when working on your own sites, you've probably totally cocked up somewhere or are coding with decade out of date methods. The only thing those tools SHOULD be useful for is cleaning up other people's half-assed rubbish they vomited up and called HTML. "

    I thought this was a place to help each other out? I'm a rookie looking for help. I make mistakes. I'm learning. Take it easy!

    In regards to "most" people using IE - If one more person uses IE than not, then most use it. That said, obviously I want everyone to see my page correctly. So I downloaded FF and Chrome. My site looks perfect in both. So is it strictly screen resolution that's causing the problem?
     
    mjblake, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  4. danniboi33

    danniboi33 Peon

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    #44
    The easiest answer to that is "No". It is not just resolution. There are many things that setup in Firefox, Safari, and Chrome that just will not setup in IE.

    BTW, I am here to help and provide what I know. I agree with that portion of your article as well, not to be told that I am a shithead for using one tool or the other.
     
    danniboi33, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  5. Nickerson

    Nickerson Peon

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    #45
    99.9% of the time nothing is wrong with the HTML. Browsers all read HTML the same, its how they display them that is different. How they display them is based on the CSS. Different browsers have different default CSS stylesheets.

    For example. IE by default has 10px padding bottom on forms, which can add an annoying gap which messes up themes. FF does not add this default padding.

    You can overwrite any of the browsers default CSS just by re-defining them in your custom style sheet.

    * {
    border: 0px;
    padding: 0px;
    margin: 0px;
    }

    That alone takes care of a good majority of cross browser compatibility issues.
     
    Nickerson, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  6. techno primer

    techno primer Peon

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    #46
    I've been to your website and just as you've said it's a bit off on the left (half of the data on your left sidebar is covered). I'm using firefox 3.5.3 on a 1024x768 resolution screen, i believe it has to do with your css styling, try to adjust the margin or padding of your page main content wrapper.

    BTW
    Your site looks ok on a higher resolution screen (higher than 1024x768) viewed on the same web browser.
     
    techno primer, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  7. mjblake

    mjblake Peon

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    #47
    thanks, techno primer. Its been suggested that my header is likely the problem. There's been criticism of my html and css as well. I'm looking into all of it. Thanks for the feedback!
     
    mjblake, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  8. ashwaria

    ashwaria Guest

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    #48
    Yes that Great
     
    ashwaria, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  9. saggey

    saggey Peon

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    #49
    Hello,

    Microsoft's Internet Explorer (IE for short), and the open-source Mozilla Firefox are the two internet browsers which enjoy the largest market dominance. As of November 07, IE holds 57% of the browser market while Firefox holds around 36%. However, Firefox is growing rapidly and if it continues to do so at the same pace it will have over-taken IE within two years.

    Firefox has often introduced new features before Internet Explorer has, and this has no doubt fueled its popularity, especially among "power-users", people who are well acquainted with computers. Tabbed browsing is probably the best example of this. Although Mozilla did not come up with the idea they implemented tabs well before Internet Explorer did and used it as a major selling-point. Another major and innovative feature introduced was applications - extensions made by the community to add to the feature-set.

    Thanks.
     
    saggey, Feb 16, 2010 IP
  10. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #50
    Depends, do you want to shove the formatting CSS off down users throats, or have semantics so it's actually USEFUL to people on the reduced functionality browsers who don't have access to CSS - and do you care about search engines.

    No, they aren't. See that span in the heading? Sliding doors hook. Your 1px non-rounded border around the rest of the element? Put that on the UL. Set the LI to wrap floats and your images will be contained - by only using one IMG tag you don't need a class on it. By using a paragraph tag you don't need a class on it, by using a H3 you don't need a class on it...

    ... and with the majority of CSS off users being handhelds or browsers like lynx, it's not like your tables are going to be obeyed anyways.

    Your mistake, as yes, you CAN do it like that. If you REALLY want that to ride up next to the image, then you can sleaze it back to tranny (boo), and set an align on the image. The LI should still wrap/contain, and add two classes to use img tags (I'd probably make it non-image based with gilder-levin at that point).

    To move it closer to your CSS off appearance if that's truly desired:
    
    <div class="gameSection">
    
    	<h2><span><!-- image sandbag --></span>Shooting Games</h2>
    	<ul>
    		<li>
    			<a href="/game/3123/Zombie-Apocalypse.html">
    				<img 
    					src="/img/zombiemassacresasd2.png"
    					alt="Zombie Apocalypse"
    					width="80" height="65"
    					align="left"
    					class="thumb"
    				/>
    			</a>
    			<h3>
    				<a href="/game/3123/Zombie-Apocalypse.html">
    					Zombie Apocalypse
    				</a>
    			</h3>
    			<img
    				src="images/stars0.gif"
    				alt="0 stars"
    				class="rating"
    			 />
    			<p>
    				Join in the Online multiplayer zombie onslaught! Upgrade your weapons, k...
    			</p>
    		</li>
    
    Code (markup):
    You have category, so it should have a HEADING. You have a list of games, use a list. You have titles for the games, use a HEADING. You have a short paragraph describing the game - use a paragraph! That's Semantics 101. What you have is decade out of date methodology.

    Which would take for CSS something along the lines of

    
    .gamesection h2 {
    	overflow:hidden;
    	width:100%;
    	padding-right:16px;
    	font:bold 120%/140% arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
    	background:#333 url(images/gameSectionH2.png) top right no-repeat;
    	/* background-color is to make the heading more apparent images off */
    }
    
    .gameSection h2 span {
    	float:left;
    	width:16px;
    	height:1.4em;
    	background:url(images/gameSectionH2.png) top left no-repeat;
    }
    
    .gameSection ul {
    	list-style:none;
    	padding-top:4px;
    	background:#000;
    	border:solid #CCC; /* I guessed on the color */
    	border-width:0 1px 1px;
    }
    
    .gameSection li {
    	overflow:hidden; /* wrap floats */
    	zoom:1; /* trip haslayout, wrap floats IE */
    	padding:2px 4px;
    }
    
    .gameSection .thumb {
    	float:left;
    	margin-right:4px;
    }
    
    .gameSection h3 a {
    	font:normal 100%/130% arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
    	color:#FD0;
    }
    
    .gameSection h3 a:active,
    .gameSection h3 a:focus,
    .gameSection h3 a:hover {
    	color:#FFF;
    }
    
    .gameSection .p {
    	margin:0;
    	padding:0;	
    	color:#CCC;
    }
    
    Code (markup):
    Which should render pretty much the same as your example. (the padding and colors would have to be tweaked to match, that's just a rough example of doing the layout)

    You don't need tables to pull off that layout, and the majority of people who browse without CSS won't see your tables anyways. Load your page in Opera and hit 'small screen' and select "user mode". Hell, look at it in just user mode with everything blurring together in one giant run-on and NOT gracefully degrading to what CSS off users want to see.

    Then you don't know enough about CSS since everything you just said is a fallacy... Especially since you appear to have a fixed width layout, the exact OPPOSITE of 'dynamic'.

    Not sure how you got that unless you ran the code solo - since CSS off your page looks nothing like that - with nothign to differentiate the headings and no padding between anything... and everything centered instead of left ;) .. and the fixed width table of course being the exact opposite of what many CSS off users want; small screen support.

    You mean this?

    <META name="y_key" content="eed7eb4a2eae9807" />

    change it to lower case, it will still work. That's not a deal-breaker and unrelated to the subject though.

    Let's go down your list of errors.
    All the META ones are because it's in upper case. That's it. Unfortunately such typo's will give you five or six errors APIECE since they cascade down the line.

    You're in XHTML 1.1, there is no ALIGN attribute in your doctype. You want that 90's ***otry, you should be using a tranny doctype.

    Attribute METHOD should be 'get' - again, uppercase. Stupid error.

    INPUT without a block level container - even if you have FORM you need a block level container in STRICT or XHTML 1.1

    Unclosed input. You're in XHTML, you have to close your tags.

    There is no such thing as the 'language' attribute in STRICT or X1.1

    Anchors inside body without block-level container. You have a list of choices, that should probably all go inside a list instead of using non-breaking-spaces with horizontal rules. Menu == UL, get used to it.

    Scroll past like thirty of those... CDATA not allowed too. Again, you need a block level container to do that in your doctype.

    Sad part is, 80% of your 'errors' would go away if you switched the doctype to XHTML 1.0 Tranny - since that's basically what you've got here. You most certainly do NOT have 1.1 - you don't even have 1.0 STRICT. To a 1.1 or 1.0 STRICT doctype your markup is complete and utter GIBBERISH.

    Though lines 203-204 is code not parsing server side screwing up a script embed, and from 226 on it's a failure to close any of your elements properly.

    Did you just add that yesterday after I looked at the site? Yesterday it was listing four games per category; today it's listing one with some goofy javascript rotating between them. Naturally confusing when you click during the fade and get the wrong item given the speed they rotate at - good usability; NOT.

    Oh, yesterday I bet your scripts were crashing in Opera so I wasn't seeing them... Yup. I was getting the unscripted version of the page (I opened it in FF today).

    The scripting off version of the page is better from an accessibility standpoint, those rotators are annoying.
     
    deathshadow, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  11. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #51
    1) For 2007 those numbers are poppycock. Did you mean 2009?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers

    2) Careful not to fall for that lie though - since share is meaningless when the size of the pool changes.

    While yes, the percent of the market FF and other alternative browsers have has gone up - IE actually has MORE user today than it did three years ago... very simple.

    2005 - 90% of 1 billion internet users == 900 million
    2008 - 70% of 1.45 billion internet users == 1015 million.

    Despite losing 20% market share, they grew their userbase ... Hard numbers for the past two years are sparse, but it ballparks out to 30% of the world population is online for 2010, with a world population of 7 billion working out to 2.1 billion internet users ... We use the 58% average result off wikipedia for IE...

    2010 Guesstimate - 58% of 2.1 billion internet users == 1218 million

    So over the past five years while "losing" 32% of the market, IE's user base has grown by 318 million people - in other words a 35% growth in user base!!! Not to piss on the open sores and alternative browser fanboy dreams, but IE's not going anywhere.

    That the tracking methods are also flawed - is it a coincidence firefox's rate of growth increased 70% when prefetch was added? How many opera users are being recorded as FF or IE users because they have to mask for faulty sniffers?

    Don't let statistics lie to you - the moment people start using percentages, always ask "A percentage of WHAT"!
     
    deathshadow, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  12. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #52
    So that means, in the past 5 years, Firefox alone went from zero to 588 million users. Firefox has gained almost twice as many users as IE. iow, out of every 3 new browser users, two picked Firefox.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  13. rive0108

    rive0108 Peon

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    #53
    FF's estimated 23% of market Share Use gain over 5 years is insignificantly small...less than a 5% annual increase, and currently less than 1 out of every 4 Use FF browsers worldwide.

    Browser Stats taken worldwide from 40,000 websites:
    In the end this is only but a "drop of water" in a pond...Each % is roughly equal to over 10 million+[out of an estimated 1,244,449,601 users connected to the Internet]
    and as is "norm" is an incurate "stat" due to the small body the statics are pulled from. The "true" Percent of browser use is probably much, much higher for IE, and much, much lower for FF,Safari,Chrome,Opera.

    BUT If the sampled trend is an acurate reflection, and the % holds true, then this would reflect global Statistics for Browser Use with IE clearly on top, and in a significant lead over the others with a "use" ratio 3 times over that of FF:

    IE=est. 65.7% or 817,603,387 Users runnning IE
    FF=est. 23.8% or 296,179,005 Users running FF

    Other
    Safari=est. 4.2%
    Chrome=est. 3.2%
    Opera=est. 2.2%

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
    rive0108, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  14. danniboi33

    danniboi33 Peon

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    #54
    The question I have is, what does it really matter? Many people drive Fords, Chevys, GMs, and on and on and each one thinks they drive the best. However, they are using what they like. Having a choice is what this country was suppose to be about. Being told what we HAVE to use is not.
     
    danniboi33, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  15. rive0108

    rive0108 Peon

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    #55
    Gazzelle is at alpha testing, If MS alpha/beta/release to public holds true, Gazzelle will be release to the general public by 2012 or thereabouts...
     
    rive0108, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  16. johnnfoy

    johnnfoy Peon

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    #56
    Firefox is awesome and IE is crap. Nuff' said
     
    johnnfoy, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  17. LPC

    LPC Peon

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    #57
    We had problems almost identical to yours. Our sites looked fine in IE and Chrome but not in FF. In the end we just removed the offending items (mainly buttons appearing in the wrong place) and experimented with reinserting them until the result was OK in all three browsers. Of course, if you're an expert in html, no problem, but if not, then the above is a way to sort things out. Having all three browsers on your computer makes checking easy. BTW we also find that IE is still used by over two thirds of visitors, so it's important that the site looks fine in IE as well as FF. Good luck!
     
    LPC, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  18. johnnfoy

    johnnfoy Peon

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    #58
    As a designer, having a website optimized for all browsers could be a big pain... so frustrating :(
     
    johnnfoy, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  19. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #59
    Well, uh, OK. If you feel 1/4 insignificant, go ahead. Considering they did that with virtually no advertising against multi-billion dollar Microsoft who force fed IE onto users, that's pretty good. And, apparently you aren't looking at any of the worldwide stats you've been shown. FF has more than 1/4 users, not less.

    Not only do you not take a statistics class, I'm not sure you did well in math either. Each percent is about 12 million.
    Please show your work. Why probably? Where are your stats?
    Nobody is arguing that. In fact, I said the same thing.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Feb 17, 2010 IP
  20. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #60
    You are absolutely correct but for one point: Internet Explorer holds back the web. It is technically incompetent; incapable of handling current standards and practices available in all modern web browsers for over a decade making it difficult, if not impossible, to create web pages that take full advantage of web technologies and decreasing time and cost to develop the same.

    For example, modern browsers can take advantage of XHTML, CSS3, HTML5, SVG, DOM level 2 and 3, and correct javascript usage today but none of those are implemented at all, or correctly, in IE8 and won't be in IE9 according to Microsoft on the IEBlog.

    In addition, while Microsoft brags about increased speed in their current build of IE9, they compare it to browser versions of today, yet IE9 won't be out for two more years! Already the compared browsers have moved on past Microsoft's tests.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Feb 17, 2010 IP