Firefox passes IE7 usage in Europe

Discussion in 'Bing' started by drhowarddrfine, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. qazu

    qazu Well-Known Member

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    #41
    That would be the article in the link you refered me to when I inoticed that IE 8 wasn't on the link in your signature.
    Again, let me repeat this for you:
    maybe it's time you checked your own sources?
     
    qazu, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  2. bbrian017

    bbrian017 Well-Known Member

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    #42
    maybe it's because all IE7 users are now using IE8?
     
    bbrian017, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  3. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #43
    Are you going to continue making me guess or are you going to point to it?
    My sources are current and up to date, especially compared to yours which are none. You don't seem to be able to follow what is given to you, nor are you able to provide counter evidence, but you continue to argue your point which you must have conjured up out of thin air.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  4. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #44
    CNET or ZDNet, forgot which, have an article stating IE7 users appear to be switching to other browsers more than they are upgrading to IE8.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  5. qazu

    qazu Well-Known Member

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    #45
    Well you gave me the link to start with :p
    What has been given to me doesn't seem worth contempating. You 11 years crusade states that it's only 1 person's test :eek:
    LOL, have you read that article in your original post? Here's a quote:
    And if you look at the stats from StatCounter you'd notice that IE 8 grew at a faster rate than FF 3 in Europe.
     
    qazu, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  6. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #46
    Either you still didn't look at the link I gave or you think the W3C is one person. Since Microsoft is a member of the W3C, it should be noted that they signed off on the test.
    What's your point? As IE users upgrade to IE8, that 67% total, of course their growth can be large. As I think I said earlier in this thread, overall, IE usage has still dropped and IE has lost market share almost every month for 4 years.

    Here's another fact you can't disprove. Four years ago, IE had over 95% market share; about the time Firefox was introduced. Current IE share is 67% while Firefox went from zero to something over 21% worldwide.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  7. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #47
    For those who haven't followed along, the links I gave show the W3Cs test for DOM conformance of web browsers compared to what the browser claims to support. IE8 does not support DOM standards from 1998. It also doesn't support XHTML. Nor SVG. Or mathML. It really doesn't even get javascript right. And, while all other browsers support the new <canvas> tag, and some HTML5 elements, IE8 does not.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  8. qazu

    qazu Well-Known Member

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    #48
    I did look at that link from howtocreate.co. uk and like I said, it was unsubstantial ... by the way I was refering to the 11 years link in your signature ...
    Well yes, 4 years ago IE had no competition and IE6 was pretty bad at rendering. Remember IE6 came out when everyone was still doing layouts in tables but it doesn't mean IE will always be bad as you keep banging on.
     
    qazu, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  9. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #49
    Unsubstantial?!
    That shows the individual elements and where they stand in each browser. It's in the process of being updated for IE8 final. I get torn between using that link or the howtocreate link for that line in my sig. The former is an excellent source but a lot to dig through if you want to compare browsers. The latter gives commentary but you have to follow his links to find the data. Both are some of the best and most used sources on the 'net.
    As my links show, proof positive, IE8 is the worst browser on the planet by far and 11 years behind all other browsers in modern standards and practices. If anyone can show it is not, I'd like to see it. No one has been able to disprove my statement since I started it two years ago when I said IE was 9 years behind.

    And no one ever will. Microsoft has already stated what it will support in IE9 and what is only on their "wishlist" (see the IEBlog). IE9, when it comes out, will still not support XHTML, which means it won't support mathML, which means it might not support SVG and <canvas> is only on their wishlist. Which puts IE9 10 years behind today's standards and practices. Even if we ignore XHTML, because (X)HTML5 will have ramped up some by then, SVG and <canvas> would put then 6 years behind today's standards. (I really shouldn't harp on <canvas> that much. It's just one element but that's almost like saying <div> is just one element.)

    And what about <video> and <audio>? Several browsers now support those two tags allowing you to embed video/audio without plugins right now (nightly builds for the next version). Microsoft, of course, is fighting it but the modern world is moving on.

    In the meantime, all the other current browsers are moving on with frequent updates. What you see is what you are going to get till IE9 comes out and who knows when that will be.

    Internet Explorer: the worst browser on the planet, holding back the web since 2001.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  10. qazu

    qazu Well-Known Member

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    #50
    Here, I'll make it easier for you. Check this and tell me what you see?
    Now if you can't see that most of the tests for IE 8 have a ? which means they are untested and that IE 8 actually scores better then FF 3 for most of the ones that have been test then I must be wasting my time.
    That's exactly what I thought, you started this 2 years ago and way before IE 8 Final was released and you've neglected to verify your sources when IE 8 Final was released.
    Actually, IE was the best browser in 2001. It's only competition was Netscape :p Microsoft's mistake was building IE to support a draft version of CSS only to have things change when CSS was finalized. But while it was the only browser out there it didn't matter ... roll on FF and Opera a few years later :D

    By the way, how is IE holding back the web?
     
    qazu, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  11. BlackIrish

    BlackIrish Active Member

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    #51
    drhowarddrfine, perhaps people would understand your points more if you could explain why are these DOM standards so important?

    Because as far as we go, every page renders just as well, and works great in IE as much as it does in FF. And what about those ActiveX pages that don't work in IE?

    Also, about HTML5, it is still not finalized so it probably does more harm to include support for it now...
     
    BlackIrish, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  12. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #52
    I'm wasting my time because it's obvious you can't read a table. I already told you those tables were being updated for IE8. Where do you see IE8 beating FF3 in anything?
    Can't you figure anything out on your own? My sig originally said IE was 11 years behind, not just IE8.
    Quit listening to Microsoft's excuses. Standards are built upon existing practices. Standards do not (or should not) invent them. But, if that were true, CSS 2.1 wasn't finalized till 2007. So why did Firefox, Opera and Safari do it so much better than IE?
    Are you not following anything I post at all?
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  13. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #53
    When you write HTML, CSS and use javascript, you are manipulating the Document Object Model (DOM). More on this after the next period of the hockey game.
    Because the web developer pounded his head against the wall whipping IE into submission. It's one of the most difficult things to do.
    Don't know. Won't touch ActiveX with a 10-foot pole.
    ALL browsers have some support for HTML5. IE8 sort of does, too, but not without a lot of javascript help.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  14. drhowarddrfine

    drhowarddrfine Peon

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    #54
    More on the DOM:

    When you create web pages with HTML, the browser interprets that markup and creates a tree. The root of the tree is <html> and has descendants of <body>, <head>, etc. All this is based on the "object model". This is why people insist that you write valid markup because the layout of the tree gets messed up if you don't.

    When one writes javascript for the browser, it is this tree/object model that gets manipulated. The interface to it is independent of the platform the browser runs on and language neutral, too. There are several levels of DOM implementation and parts to each level. The DOM compliance test I linked to above will show that Microsoft has conformed to none of them since 1998 while all other browsers are current, or mostly so, through the last version dated 2004.

    If you don't support the DOM standard, you can't support proper javascript operation in the browser (actually you can't even support HTML, and even CSS, but at least IE gets the basics pretty much right). Some who write javascript for the browser complain that browsers need to be fed different things when, in reality, it's IE that needs different code since its implementation is not up to date.
     
    drhowarddrfine, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  15. J32

    J32 Peon

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    #55
    Have been waiting for this already a long time. I would like to see people and websites in asia would go more the firefox way as well. In Korea is so much ActiveX needed that there is sadly no way around IE.
     
    J32, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  16. GregHarper

    GregHarper Banned

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    #56
    This is good news to web developers and designers. Death to IE please.
     
    GregHarper, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  17. qazu

    qazu Well-Known Member

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    #57
    You obviously didn't look at that link ... just banging on again. You obviously have a bone to pick, good luck with that ;)
     
    qazu, Apr 2, 2009 IP
  18. deny

    deny Active Member

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    #58
    ????? Where do you see IE8?

    [​IMG]


    Your signature
    [​IMG]

    I see clearly IE8: The new IE8 is 11 years behind the standards or wrong.

    As i can remember in early phase when i wrote "dirty" HTML (not closed tables or other tags with strange javascript) IE renders every page just as well.I got a lot issue with Firefox and Opera.

    btw

    Do not forget to visit this page:

    http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/

    regarding IE8 test update for HTML5, CSS 2.1 etc...
     
    deny, Apr 3, 2009 IP
  19. Ljiljan

    Ljiljan Peon

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    #59
    Firefox is way better than IE - any version of it :)
     
    Ljiljan, Apr 3, 2009 IP
  20. kenbrower

    kenbrower Well-Known Member

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    #60
    I wonder if IE 8 will reverse the trend? I guess we'll see this summer.
     
    kenbrower, Apr 3, 2009 IP