Why is it so hard to hire high quality PHP Developers online? What happened to there being an over abundance of people? The ones are available don't seem to have much experience or know how and the rest are just booked forever + 1. Any comments on this? Seems like 3 years ago, they were a dime a dozen.
Well, you pretty much summed it up for yourself without needing our help Few experienced programmers make an active choice to switch to PHP as a programming language (not ragging on PHP here --I love it-- just sayin'). Most PHP programmers don't come from a formal software background; they pick it up on the fly by reading a book (maybe even two), glancing at some tutorials, maybe poking at some scripts they found on the web. Few of them have any real training in development, debugging, algorithms, analysis, etc. And fewer yet have real world experience on commercial/enterprise-grade projects to back it up. The curse of PHP is that it makes it easy for anyone to get started. Indeed, the pros are booked because they are pros. And it's not just PHP. There's still (and always has been) a shortage of good Java developers, good C++ developers, etc. But part of the problem is the market as well. Most people looking for a PHP programmer aren't willing to pay a decent wage: they see so many inexperienced and eager scripters willing to code for $10/hour, hear about how easy it is to "do PHP", that they wonder why they should pay someone $100/hour for the "same" work. Which, as you and I know, is hardly the "same" work at all. OK, end of rant
True that, there's a large piece missing for the skill incentive. These days, most of the higher-level scripting languages like PHP are pretty easy to pick up, regardless of any past experience or training. From a C++ standpoint, there is also a lot missing from the language to make it as robust as languages such as C++, Java, and even C. It is almost like stepping down a notch from all the advanced programming techniques you've learned. With low quality pay from all the competition and the lack of actual programming robustness in these languages, the market is suffocated to those who can tolerate it (i.e. mostly outsourced freelancers). However, the ironic piece to this issue is that due to this "braindrain" of skill, what's developed has been a coagulation of those who aren't experienced in the software development realm at all and a few scattered pros who use this to their advantage by exercising their skill and using word-of-mouth to let clients find them.
^^That's a common misconception, php is in no way in competition with c++, they are designed and used for totally different things, c++ is not designed for use on the web and although php can be used as an os development tool, it isn't designed for that, so comparing them is a pretty stupid thing to do. I'm fluent in both c(++) and php, and no shit I'll use php over c everytime, even for gui applications, it just makes more sense on a page, it's easier to look at...... I never had to look for a programmer for anything but I don't imagine it to be that hard, if you're so serious about needing a full time programmer then either put one on a retainer or learn yourself.
I wasn't comparing the application of C++ versus PHP, I was comparing the robustness of the language. However, in terms of "competition" CGI is an alternative to PHP, so yes the C++ language is in "competition" in some way to PHP. Where I see a specific lack of robustness in PHP is in its approach on OOP. While this is undoubtedly being improved constantly, it can't compare in sophistication to advanced languages like C++, Java, C#, and generally anything else that uses OOP now. It also lacks native framework/MVC support. These two issues combined can make scripting languages like JSP and ASP .NET a lot more appealing to programmers who want to develop industry-quality web applications; leaving PHP for more medium-sized jobs, open source fanatics, and for people who just want to get things done. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not against PHP and actually I've done almost all of my web scripting in PHP. But from programming in C++ for such a long time, I can see why PHP isn't always a good choice for seasoned programmers who are looking for a language to do contracting-specific work in--just because of the simplicity of the language and the effect that has on the market.
Firslty, both php and perl are a c codebase, not c++. I'm aware of the differences between the languages I just dont see how it's relevant to php's performance at all, like I said they aren't for the same thing it's like expecting javascipt to be as flexible as c, it's a ridiculous concept. As for it's incompleteness, that's not down to the language itself but the nature that it's released to the public, there's nothing stopping anyone writing thier own more complicated frameworks and task specific code, it's OOP interface is more than sufficient to do such things. They are two different worlds entirely, it's not fair to compare them on any level, ASP.NET and such are in effect sold to the public my massive corporations, php is open source; built and maintained by enthusiasts mostly, Microsoft need to know when they release thier products like IDEs/SQL Servers/Enterprise Servers etc that they will get the ridiculous sums of money involved in buying liscences, whereas the php writers need to know it works, everything else is right down to the programmer at the other end.
Actually, found a few freelancer sites that were great. I guess DP is a great place for content people, just not programmer people, sorry, no offense. I just know that when I post a php job here, get few if any responses. Just tried a freelancer site and got 30 responses, so we'll see I've tried freelancer sites many times before with mixed results but that was 2 years back. We'll see how things have changed.
It depends how you ask - "need PHP work done, pm for details" will usually only get responses from people desperately seeking work. Anyone charging a decent amount for their time will not want to spend it chasing up people round forums if they can possibly avoid it. I can understand why you may want to keep your ideas quiet but you have to strike a reasonable balance between that and giving potential programmers enough details to get started. If you post the project details, those able to complete the task can get in touch with a quote. You're then immediately in a position to pick someone and get on with it. If you post "PM me for details", you get swamped by every man and his dog wondering if they can make a few bucks. You have to send out the details to them all, they have to get consider it - if they can't do it, you may be waiting indefinitely for a response. If it involves a certain commonly used script, you can save a few hours by using someone familiar with it - so even experienced coders may drop out having received the details of the project. Anyone serious about it can then give you a quote but you might want to wait for a few for comparison before choosing. It just drags out the whole process and as time is money, most reasonable coders will not be interested in going through all that.
hi, if you need php programming, just let me know. More than 4 years of PHP/MySQL experience I have. I can provide you references online and from DP users as well. Sorry for advertiseing myself, but I don't want to send PM. krisztian