You got the important things about Christianity totally wrong. According to your logic, Bush is a Christian, according to mine he is not.
Yeah to an imbecile it seems that it sinks in the sea... Oh wait, And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. Is your book wrong about the sun setting in a muddy spring or is it correct? I wont expect an honest answer, so ill give you a bit of time to think up a contrived rationalisation.
Ox, all what you are about is attacking us, yet that doesn't make you a human, you are still animal. We say in our speach that the sun rises/sets at so and so time, and on so and so place. We see the sun rises/sets from/into the area we see under the horizons. I just don't know how you ox see it, and I don't care about you imbecile.
Muslim commentators of the Qur'an has answered your pathetic "challenge" 400 years ago Imam Al-Qurtubi (died 671 AH/1273 CE): Imam Fakhr-ud-Deen Ar-Razi (died 606 AH/11209 CE): Imam Ibn Kathir (died 774 AH/1373 CE): I added the bolded emphasis to show the silliness of st0x. So people who lived four hundred years ago are smarter than him?
I asked you a question. Does the sun set in a muddy spring or not? Does your religion require you to be a coward or is it just an inevitable result of believing in and having to defend idiotic bollocks? awinsjclarke, The passage said he went to the place where the sun set and see it setting in a muddy spring. You can stand anywhere on the planet and see the sun setting behind soemthing. He went to the place where the sun sets and see it setting in a muddy spring. Now that, to anyone who doesn't have to invent contrived rationalisations, obviously implies that he see the sun setting in a spring because it says he WENT to where it sets.
I have given citations from classical commentators on this specific verse from Quran and you still want to argue about this?? Did you even read the references I gave?? Really, who is more authoritative here, these tafsir masters who have full knowledge of the Quranic language, or an ignorant Western fella living four hundred years later who cannot comprehend Arabic language, much less interpret it??? The Quran was NOT revealed in English, so finding fault with the English translation is useless. Dont blame your poor comprehension of this Quranic passage on the Arabic Quran. Since its clear you are arguing only for the sake of arguing, I shall no longer spend a minute further with the likes of you. Your foolishness is clear to all if they were to read citations that I posted above.
The text in the Quran is clear. It's obvious what it means. You are just trying to massage it in order to invent a rationalisation which can be used to defend such a stupid claim in a rediculous, shitty old book. Sun sets in a muddy spring? Yeah course it does
Thank you very much dear awinsjclarke. In the Wise Quran, we read what means: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful Alif-Lâm-Râ. These are the Verses of the explaining Book. (1) Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'ân in order that you may understand. (2) I am sure that stOx is not only unaware about the Arabic language, which is the best of the languages I have known so far, but he is also so dirty that he is not qualified to hold the Holy Quran even if he knows the Arabic language very well. And when you (O Mohammad) recitest the Qur'an we place between you and those who believe not in the Hereafter a hidden barrier; (45) And We place upon their hearts veils lest they should understand it, and in their ears a deafness; and when you make mention of your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn their backs in aversion. (46)
You are aware that the language being the most beautiful is open to interpretation right. Some people don't like the sound of it. Me personally, I am indifferent about it. It is a pretty harsh sounding language to a non native speaker. I am indifferent because I have lot's of Arab friends.
When did Allah appoint you in charge of who is qualified to hold a Quran? How dare you think you and not Allah who is fit to make such proclamations.
Polite teen is clearly a heretic in the eyes of Allah, and will likely never inherit paradise. He should be lashed for his arrogance.
IN addition to what been said about this verse, I have some comments: by mentioning an "honest reply" were some people here expecting a Muslim to reply with the following? "oh, The sun sets in a muddy spring! hehehe, gee I can't believe I was believing this BS, hahaha, silly me I should have figured it out myself, it's been written like 1500 years ago, anyway, thank you guys, I have been reading Qur'an all my life, and did not pay attention to this, how can the sun set in a muddy spring, I m an Atheist now " I would gladly give you such a reply, if that was the case, but nope, you fail, not that only, some never read Qur'an, except whatever they find on hateful sites from where they copy & paste it here without a minimal effort of research, or at least just reading Qur'an, and making their OWN criticism if there was any, yet they consider themselves scientific, and qualified to do such criticisms? before I speak about that specific verse, I like to quote Robert Briffault in his "Making of Humanity": inquiry, experiments, observation measurement, investigation ......... and those Arabs were believers! how come they been able to achieve all this, when they believe that the Sun sets in a muddy spring? did you ask? how they been able to invent camera ( original word is Qamra in Arabic which means dark room) when they believe that the sun rises and sets on Earth? how come we did not hear about the trip done by Arabs to find where is that spring in which the sun sets? another quote: George Sarton in his "the Introduction to the History of Science", wrote: naah Georgi you must be kidding me, these people believe in an ancient book that says Sun sets in a muddy spring hehehe.. didn't you read StOx scientific works on DP?! a third quote? Oliver Joseph Lodge wrote in the Pioneers of Science: "The only effective link between the old and the new science is afforded by the Arabs. The dark ages come as an utter gap in the scientific history of Europe, and for more than a thousand years there was not a scientific man of note except in Arabia." yup, I know what you think, you want some of what Oliver smokes, right? so how come, those Muslims, did all that, while they hold firm on their religion?! the same question can be asked in other words, why the scientific revolution in Muslim world then, did not make them unbelievers in Qur'an, while the current scientific revolution in West resulted in many abandoning Christianity? example from this forum alone are many can you answer? you do not have to answer me, but will be good if you asked yourself this question and answered. now to speak about that verse, sun setting in a muddy spring?, this is what Islam haters want people to believe about Qur'an, that Qur'an says the Sun sets in a muddy spring, but it is not what Qur'an says in this chapters we read: here is how Islam haters who claim they are scientific now (Thanks to Islam and Muslims according to the quotes above) reads this translation attempt done by an English man (Marmaduke Pickthall), an individual who reverted to Islam and became a Muslim scholar, who wanted to translate Qur'an for English speakers, he did a great job, but that does not mean it is perfect: 1- he walked and reached the setting-place of the Sun 2- he found that the Sun is setting in a muddy spring according to Islam haters understanding, it seems that the big deal for Qur'an, was not in reaching the sun setting place nor that it sets in a muddy spring, it looks like these 2 things were known to all then, but the big deal was in the people he found and whether to forgive or punish it is like me telling somebody: "I was swimming all day from Amman, till I reached the South pole, there I decided to have some rest and smoke hookah before swimming back home, and also to watch some penguins as they chase lions there, while I was looking for some coal, I found a ring and was not sure should I take it or leave it because maybe its owner will come and search for it"? and that somebody then would tell me "so did you take it or leave it?" all these great Muslim scientist (whom the science owes its existence to them, as Westerners themselves admits) did not find any problem in this verse, now, try not to be silly, but if you decide to, then feel free, you do not ridicule Muslims or Islam in this, you ridicule yourself, what been translated as a "setting-place" is actually (maghriba alshshamsi) or (the time when the sun goes away) or (the sunset time) the proof is in the next verses (and from the same translation), in particular verse 18:90 even though it includes another bad translation, what been translated as (rising-place) is (matliAAa alshshamsi) in Arabic, which means the time when the sun appears, or the sunrise time - it proves that there is no place involved, since the place (according to Islam haters understanding) for the Sun to set was a muddy spring, then the Sun should rise from a muddy spring, and will be good if she took a shower or all that mud will make our day dark but the verse is speaking about a different "place" for rising unless if there was a huge tunnel inside Earth from east to West, from which the Sun can pass, and take a shower, I put "place" in quotations, because I m speaking according to Islam haters understanding, not what it actually says, if you been to beaches at sunset, you will find that the sun looks like setting in the sea, if not google some beach sunset pictures, if you read the same verse in different translations, you will also discover that Islam haters, pick the translation that most fits their agenda in hating Islam and Muslims, the translation they used in this case is "Pickthall" it reads different in another translation: 1- Yusuf Ali: 2- Mufti Taqi Usmani 3- Sahih International which one to pick? depends on the agenda, but the good thing, there is only ONE Qur'an, all the above are translations, and in Qur'an, it clearly says, that he reached the time when the sun sets & rise, not a place where the sun set or rise, and it appeared to his eyes, as if it was setting in that pool, not that it does set in a pool or muddy spring, your case is against a translation, not against Qur'an, if you want to criticize Qur'an, feel free, but make it on a good base, by being first qualified to do so, and it takes more than just using the mouse to copy & paste to criticize Qur'an, here is a starting tip to get qualified: read Qur'an
There are numerous verses which describe a flat earth (these include: 18:47, 20:53, 43:10, 43:38, 78:6, 79:30), and others which would only be applicable if the earth is flat (these include 27:61, 18:86, 18:90, 36:38, 36:40) "point of sunset", as in Mufti Taqi Usmani's translation, would mean something only if the earth was flat and such a point existed. Scientifically, "point of sunset" is meaningless. "sunset" is something seen only from the earth's frame of reference and it is not attached with any specific "point". Imad, the authors of the Qur'an thought that the earth is flat, as many others who lived in the 7th century. get over it.
you only gave the verses numbers, as my previous post said, there are different translations, by different people, so paste them as you read them, and mark where it says Earth is flat.
All of them say or indicate that the earth is flat. Clearly, even if the quran said: "O believers of Allah, Allah says that the world is flat", you will still argue that the quran doesn't say that, so there's no point in pasting them and discussing them. Instead, I commented on the translation YOU pasted, and said: "point of sunset", as in Mufti Taqi Usmani's translation, would mean something only if the earth was flat and such a point existed. Scientifically, "point of sunset" is meaningless. "sunset" is something seen only from the earth's frame of reference and it is not attached with any specific "point". Or, in simple words for you, "point of sunset" is rubbish. nonsence. bullocks. Its like saying: "the white in the black". it means nothing. However, It can have a very simple physical meaning/interpretation only if we assume a flat earth. There are many more such cases in the quran, I have given the verse numbers above. The authors of the quran belived that the earth is flat. Period.
It looks like you did not read my post, you only pasted numbers, and I asked you to paste these verses as you read them, before you start jumping from point to point giving worthless info as usual, that expresses your hate not the real, try to concentrate a little and control your negative feelings, then re-read my post, and paste the verses as you read them, that if you read them.
I did read my post, and as I said to me it looked like arguing that the quran doesn't mean to say the earth is flat even if it said "the earth is flat". you see? your arguments are bad, illogical, and non-convincing. Anyway, let me argue. http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/quran43.html We start with verse 43:3, from surah alzukhouf: "043.003 We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom)." In my interpretation of the quran, this verse means the following: "the quran is written in simple language and means exactly what is written." keeping that in mind, we have almost immediately after that: "043.010 (Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);" Can someone seriously doubt that the authors of the quran thought that the earth is flat? nope.