1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

Fair Tax

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by ncz_nate, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. mookie9920

    mookie9920 Peon

    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #41
    lol, i see what the guy above was talkin about, you are ignorant..i was purely stating an example, i never said the future of the tax system should rely solely on my fathers spending habits.
     
    mookie9920, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  2. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,900
    Likes Received:
    160
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #42
    um....yes, the state sales tax is gone along with the 16th amendment.
     
    d16man, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  3. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #43
    No it is you who is ignorant my friend.

    I know you did not, but you used it as an argument in this thread. Learn to debate and come back would you?
     
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  4. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,900
    Likes Received:
    160
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #44
    just ignore him, most of us do...he has to have the last word, he can't except when he is wrong, and he is ignorant to really find out all the information. If you ask Gtech, GRIM is also a flip-flopper.
     
    d16man, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  5. mookie9920

    mookie9920 Peon

    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #45
    lol, aight, btw there is a fine line between debating and being an ass.
     
    mookie9920, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  6. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #46
    http://www.vajoe.com/calculator/fair_tax.html

    Really?

    I have read many articles that say otherwise.

     
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  7. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,900
    Likes Received:
    160
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #47
    d16man, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  8. mookie9920

    mookie9920 Peon

    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #48
    yeah i don't understand why he has ron paul as his avatar but he hates the fair tax? i was a bit confused with that
     
    mookie9920, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  9. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #49
    ahh you and Gtech is 'most' is it?
    Problem with that, you have NEVER proved me wrong, maybe in this thread with your fair tax you can ;)

    Really? Wow since I've already proven you wrong on the fair tax that you support so much and know so much about I find this funny.
    Really now? Gtech I don't believe never even accused me of a flip flopper. Maybe once upon a time, I guess it's possible....
    Glad to see you bringing up the guy you hope to be like. The guy who really describes your baseless attacks above ;)

    The 'last word' argument is a pathetic attempt to win a debate when you have lost ;) I see you like to play that card as much as your homeboy Gtech.
     
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  10. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #50
    Ron Paul does not support the fair tax :rolleyes:

    Nor does anyone support every item their candidate stands for in most all instances.
     
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  11. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,900
    Likes Received:
    160
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #51
    RP is actually not a fairtax supporter, although Huckabee is...like I said, do yourself a favor and just let GRIM talk to himself. Its a much more pleasant (and factual) conversation that way.
     
    d16man, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  12. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #52
    Ahh you 'might' have me for once here, I hope you do to be honest. As I have not looked much into it to be truthful, every time I have I almost puke.

    Where does it state on that site ALL state and local sales taxes will be destroyed? 'talk about a disaster waiting to happen'

    What you linked to does not show this from what I witnessed ;)

    Come on D16 this is your chance. A subject you have read up on, come on prove me wrong. I am hoping like hell for you. You talk so much shit it would be great for you for once to do it. Hell I'll even give you a big old green!
     
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  13. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #53
    :rolleyes:
    D16 you are being so dishonest here if you actually think you are more intelligent on these P&R forums than me..

    I mean seriously come on now, what fantasy world are you in?
     
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  14. mookie9920

    mookie9920 Peon

    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #54
    i was watching a video today on you tube...it was an interview with one of the candidates and the this dude from the IRS...i could of swore it was ron paul....i'm lookin for the vid now
     
    mookie9920, Jan 8, 2008 IP
    GRIM likes this.
  15. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #55
    BTW straight from 'the horses mouth'

    All the taxes 'abolished'

    Where is state and local taxes? hmmmmm
    http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#2

    Can someone please give me an OWNED

    I actually feel sorry for him, and to think a subject he is so passionate about :eek:
     
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  16. mookie9920

    mookie9920 Peon

    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #56
    mookie9920, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  17. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #57
    GRIM, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  18. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #58
    Did D16 say that the Fair Tax would remove State Tax? Is he sure about this?

    You didn't answer my question though. 23% is the proposed opening rate, not a permanent rate.

    If it is a fixed upper rate, then please post that. But if it can go higher, that is important for people to know.
     
    guerilla, Jan 8, 2008 IP
  19. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,900
    Likes Received:
    160
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #59
    As I look back at my post...I should have finished my thought...the state sales tax as we know it is gone, along with the 16th amendment. For more information about this, please go to this link:

    http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/TheFairTaxWhatsInItForTheStates.pdf

    This is a wonderful explanation (to long to post) of how the States that collect sales tax (it is only 45 if I remember correctly), will have to redo their tax code...those that don't have sales tax are in another boat.

    In terms of the fixed upper rate...we have to be careful, because a lot of people say that the fairtax is a flat tax, which is untrue.

    from the FT website:
     
    d16man, Jan 9, 2008 IP
  20. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

    Messages:
    6,876
    Likes Received:
    187
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #60
    I've just read through this - great discussion. From what I can tell, the thing is flatly wrong (ridiculous pun, I know, but...), for many reasons. It also seems (from reliance on the Fairtax website itself, as Grim and others have done, at the recommendation of D16), that the thing is dead in the water. D16 is simply wrong, I'd have to say. I'd also say good job, especially Grim, for fleshing this interesting discussion out.

    A few other salient points, seems to me.

    -a flat tax on necessities consumption (good point, Grim) neglects that there is no such thing as "the" economy. The economy is composed of almost infinitely variegated goods and services. Folks with little left over after necessities will be left with a bigger bite of pain. As I used to say, in business, when evaluating COGS, too many people go with standard business-school books and forget you don't take percentages, but money, to the bank. If you have $5 to your name, and what you need to live on costs $4, your $1 hurts a helluva lot more than if you have $5M, you spend to your heart's content, on both goods and necessities, and have your $2.3 million left in the bank. It isn't fair.

    -no business will receive an increase in taxes owed, without raising prices accordingly, absent being forced to do so. (Another good point, Grim). And D16's post in response here, too, is fallacious. The additional $25 paid isn't "nothing," air, just a transfer between the consumer and the government with the merchant acting as an unaffected "broker." A consumer paying $100 to a merchant bought goods that had a percentage of COGS associated with them. Obviously, a consumer buying more "stuff" means more COGS to the merchant went into the purchase. So it isn't simply a "transfer." The merchant has to eat more COGS, but gets none of the benefit. Wrong.

    -the thing just discourages spending. Can we say, excess capacity, folks? Increasing the inducement to a demand standstill isn't bright.
     
    northpointaiki, Jan 9, 2008 IP