Everyone still so worried about PR?

Interesting post Anthony...

Shame it doesn't also produce the same results in terms of file size, or go above the 100+ mark...

Good find ; )

 

Get on the mans email list, I am sure he would welcome your questions.

He seems like a foremost researcher, so maybe you can get him to join here.

Contact him for us please.

 

No email address...

 

http://www.circleid.com/members/profile_view_ind.php?id=544

(Search in Google )

Does require signup though...

 

Well looks like he is trying to sell his course to us.

I guess he is one of those sales letter guys trying to sell an e-book.

No use to us unless you want to buy a book from him.

I say we stick with Compar and Owlcroft for now.

 

TOP 30 remind me never to cross you, maybe you would be better off to work for the FBI, you do quick work.

 

Anthony,

This article was posted on the LED Digest by Karl L. Baldwin in issue 1815. Jill Whalen made a dead accurate and insightful response pointing out a problem with the Ricerca study. Here is what she said:

From: Jill Whalen
Subject: Outbound links

Hey LEDers...

Karl Baldwin had an interesting post [issue 1815] studying whether
outbound links help or hurt rankings in Google. I'm not a believer
in PageRank leakage (although I understand that mathematically it
exists to a certain extent), and it's nice to see some statistics
which show that outbound links actually help rankings, as opposed to
hurt them.

However, there's a problem with the conclusion in the article Karl
referenced:


>> The result is very conclusive. Both leading search engines rank
>> pages with more links much higher than pages with fewer links! ...
>> SEOs touting the "PR Leak" theory are simply wrong. If their
>> theory held any weight at all, we should see the exact opposite.


You have not proved that pages don't leak PR. You've only proved
that outbound links don't hurt rankings. This is a very important
distinction that many people don't get.

Outbound links may very well leak PageRank, but that's not what you
measured; you only measured rankings in the search results for a
keyword query.

What you did prove, was much more important than whether PageRank
leaks, however. You proved that even if you do leak PageRank, it
makes no difference to your site, and that the benefits of linking
out far outweigh any PR leakage that may occur (if indeed it even
does). This is because PageRank plays such a minor role in how sites
rank in the search results.

It's important for everyone on this list to understand that their
PageRank score isn't what gets them ranked highly in Google for
their targeted keyword phrases. It's one factor among many that are
looked at to determine ranking, and it's not even a big factor. I
suggest that everyone stop looking at it at all, because it keeps
people focused on the wrong metrics.

One final note. When I and others talk about PageRank being
relatively unimportant, please don't misconstrue this as saying that
linking in and of itself is unimportant. Links are extremely
important for rankings in all of the major search engines,
especially when the appropriate anchor text is used within them.
PageRank, however, is less important and is only a subset linking.

Hope this helps clear up some confusion!

Best,

Jill Whalen

I also posted a follow up to the Ricerca study. I made this point:

From: Bob Wakfer
Subject: Outbound links


>> Does The Number Of Links On A Page Affect Ranking?

- Jon Ricerca, LED 1815 [via Karl Baldwin]

There other interesting aspect raised by the Ricerca study is the
following. It has been the "conventional wisdom" among some SEO
commentators that Google will not read or index more than 50 links
on a page. I personally have never accepted that, because Google's
own Webmaster's Guidelines counsel webmasters not to put more than
100 link on a page. It is hard for me to believe they would advise
this if in fact they were going to ignore all links beyond the
number 50.

However, getting back to the Ricerca study I would have speculated
that if 100 OBLs is in fact Google's upper limit that we would have
seen the correlation between the number of OBLs and SERP placement
drop off as the number on the page approached this limit. However,
we didn't see this. It appears that the correlation is higher for 90
to 100 links than for any lower number.

The real shame is that Ricerca didn't test for pages with more than
100 OBLs per page.

Regards,

Bob Wakfer

 

Thanks for the compliment but no thanks, not the FBI. Not for the US government at all actually. Well not for anyone but myself.

 

Like I told these guy's, we should just be happy you are here Bob.

I think we are in good company with you.

What the hell is LED

The only LED I know is Led Zeppelin, that band I love and grew up with, who are this other LED, please get us a link for this group Bob.

 

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Well Bob, I thank you for the contact, you damm well do more then sweep up the joint after the bar closes at 2:30

Lock er down tonight and get some sleep.

Thanks for your professional help, you have been telling me I needed professional help for a long time.

You just were not thinking that you would be the provider?

 

Well I may have to revise my recommendation. You have been absolutely civilized throughout this thread. Even attempted to mediate when you thought others were getting to rambunctious.

Next thing you know you'll be bucking for a moderator's job.

 

Someone has to calm these flame wars, this place can get nasty in a hurry.

When a couple radicals like you and SEBasic start clashing, someone with some reason has to step in, even a nut can see that Bob!

And I thought I was the worst rebel on the forum circuit, you guys fooled me.

Whatever happened to that Shawn Guy?

 

I still hear from people who think PR is the only way to show that your website is a success, just like a thread I read on my forum today. A company said that they were successful because they were listed high on Alexa.. I laughed to myself, and then replied diplomatically!

Results and $$ are the count of success. If you are listed No.1 for blue widgets I don't care about what PR my website is, providing that the KW is bringing in visitors which hopefully = sales.

Links are vital, as discussed in the posts in this thead, but I wouldn't work on increasing my links solely to increase my PR, providing they are PR4+ then it'll help my rankings.

Darren

 

This thread has grown like Jack's beanstalk, so I'm answering things a number of posts back.

Just so. I was using the word "strong" in a quite vague way--albeit deliberately, just to avoid seeming to mean exactly PR or exactly anchor text. I suspect "strong" is best avoided altogether, and "high-PR" or "anchor-relevant" (or some such) used as appropriate for the context.

The post of Jill Whelan's analysis cut me off, because I would have made the same point (not to try to put myself in her league). But it seemed blindingly obvious that the reported study was not only statistically dubious quasi-science, but that the whopper, which jumped out at once, was--once again--a total confounding of SERPs with PR. It is somewhere between difficult and impossible to maintain that outbound links do not, at least to some extent, diminish PR--PR is, after all, a mathematical construct, and while not all the quantitative parameters used by Google are exactly known, they don't, and cannot, affect the qualitative conclusions. We know PR is lost, we just can't say with the same precision as Google can in-house how much is lost.

Something closer to science (but still short of it unless the statistical base is made a whole lot larger) would be to compare long-term PR results for a number of highly similar, link-heavy pages in which half the pages had "open" links and half had "hidden" (or "blocked") links.

But that is largely academic curiosity, not practical matters. We link to whom we feel we should link, where we feel we should. It's really that simple. Too much SEO ends up as the tail wagging the dog.

 

I agree. I like to consider proper SEO as that which is logical and natural. Go much beyond that and you start pushing the envelop towards penalities. How much is too much? You will see it in the SERPs.

 

they don't need to be PR4+ to help your ratings; any PR, as long as its in google's index, will help you.

it's just that PR4+ only show with a link: search. it doesn't mean they don't count though.

 

That's correct.

A link is link - get as many as you can. Put on your PR blinders when you're working on links. Too many people factor PR into everything they do and that's a mistake.

 

There is no link limit. The 100 link limit is a guideline for newbies who do not understand how PageRank works. The thought is that if a newbie with low PR makes his site too meshed it will dilute the PR to such an extent that none of his pages will link well. IF you know what you are doing and have enough PR you can put hundreds of links on a page without issue.

http://www.markcarey.com/googleguy-says/archives/google-100-link-limit-is-just-a-guideline.html

 

Sorry, but you all are very wrong about the importance of PR. I have site with 27,300 pages and it'a about 3,000 keywords I'm interested in to promote it. When PR changes even within the same value, for example 6 value from weak to strong, I have about +3,000 uniq visitors from Google on daily basis. When it changed from 5 to 6 I had +5,000 uniq visitors coming to my site every day from Google.

So when we are talking about rich content sites then PR is more important then Allinanchor, because you get visitors for noncompetitive keywords but it can be 3,000 keywords (or even many thousands) that can give you 500,000 uniq visitors from Google on month basis (I have from 450,000 to 500,000 for my site)

So PR is almost nothing for very competitive keywords, but it's very important for the whole site if it has 10,000+ pages with rich uniq content.

PS I'm doing SEO for my Russian clients and I force them to remake the whole content of their site: describe their services, products in details in many pages with illustrations and so on, place useful tools for their products. They have good results from SEO but they don't really care about it at the end of my work because their's sites become a real tool for selling and they recieve much greater outcome from the site with the old visitors (or, for example, from offline ads like TV, newspapers, outdoor ads, billboards if they provide the URL of their site and of course from banner ads campaigns) and with new visitors they have 10th times more then it was before. That's why the most important ppl for me not SEO specialists but producers, editors, usability specialists, designers and so on.