Every american to have a national ID in 9 months?!

I read what you typed. You're babbling.

So what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

Real ID does no more tracking than your SS card. Real ID is just more secure and more useful. There's no real argument against Real ID. It's just a glorified SS card. So if you don't want Real ID then tear up your SS card and see how well your life goes.

 

This is such backwards logic. SS cards and ID cards containing biometric data are completely different things.

You are using this false comparison as a crutch to prop up your illogical tired argument.

 

They serve the same purpose. The biometric data simply makes it impossible to steal your identity.

Like I said, if you don't think it's important for people to be able to verify who you are then go ahead and tear up your SS card.

If you like having your life depend on a 9 digit, not too difficult to steal number that everyone requires from you, then you're a fool.

 

The card isn't the issue, it's the database and information sharing behind it. It's who has access to the database, and what potentials for abuse lie there.

The only thing that concerns me about the physical card is that it could lead to harassment for anyone stopped by the police and doesn't have it on them. It's ridiculous for Americans to have to carry internal passports in their own country.

 

You are wasting your time. this guy urinates himself thinking about the glorious prospect of being relieved of the responsibility of looking after himself.

 

You mean a driver's license?

Proof of citizenship wouldn't be necessary if there wasn't such abuses by illegals and citizens to vote illegally in elections.

A secure ID card has nothing to do with looking after yourself or not. If you don't think that being able to prove your identity is important then burn all your ID cards. See how far you get in every day life.

That again has nothing to do with the Real ID. That information is already available to the government. It's just that now they won't have to drive 40 miles to get it. It simply makes all the existing information easier to get.

Your real issue is not a secure form of your SS card which is needed in this country. The real issue is what information you think the government should be able to have anywhere in their systems.

The fact of the matter is that the existing SS card system is insecure. Millions of americans have their identity stolen. The Real ID will solve that problem. The fact is the government is not getting any more information with Real ID than they already get with your SSN or Driver's license. They're just making the card more secure and the data more easily accessible. Which I don't have a problem with.

 

Kalvin, get educated and read why so many oppose Real ID.

 

The purpose of national ID is tracking. Think of yourself as a UPS package, and your national ID as your tracking number. Makes me wonder why I immigrated from the USSR, could as well stay there to put up with this Big Brother crap.
Does anybody know of any country that hasn't been taken over by socialists yet?

 

Since elections are rigged anyway, it is not important. Besides, it can be prevented by deporting illegals.

I don't have any, don't like being tracked by Big Brother. That's why they are tightening the rules, they don't like being unable to track me. See what the problem is?

It isn't, yet. Unless you gave it to them. They are making it more difficult to maintain normal lifestyle unless you let them track you.

They are making it more difficult to live in the US without giving them your personal information. They can't force you to give it to them, because your privacy is protected by Constitution, so they are forcing you to 'volunteer' under threat of being excluded from the economy.

I don't see how it's going to be more secure. If you spend money for a RFID reader you could walk around stealing people's data

 

Is anyone here besides me getting the sudden urge to find a very deep hidey hole? And, for all those who think this is a good idea or that this is something that can be ignored, think again. It's coming down to the wire to decide whether you will be a "good" little government drone, or actually stand against this blatant disregard for Constitutional rights and freedoms...even if it means doing without all the conveniences of "civilization"...even if it means possibly dying for what you believe. Make no mistake, it WILL come down to that if you choose to fight and NOT take this card, or eventually one of those damned chips. This is the time when you find out who truly will deserve to be part of the "land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE." And, I can tell you it won't be all those idiot pussies who can't stand to give up their cable t.v. or playstation...it won't be them who will sell their souls for the ability to have cheese burgers every night or a cold 6 pack and a stupid football game.

 

Yeah. Like Bible says, there is going to be time when good people will be hiding in caves. There isn't going to be safety anywhere for anyone without slave mentality, total police state

 

A driver's license is not a passport. If you're not driving, you don't require one and are expected to carry one.

You mean if we protected the sanctity of our election process and the sovereignty of our borders. Well, I agree. You take care of the root problem, not fashion elaborate band-aid solutions.

Why do you have to keep taking it to this extreme?

What is going to be so secure about this card? Biometric scanning? How will that help me online? Any hardware can be hacked through the software interface.

It's this flawed notion that the government will be able to come up with a uniform system for identification nationwide, and that no one will be able to defeat and exploit it or that the government will be able to re-issue/update cards fast enough to stem abuse.

At least with M$ Windows, you can download updates. Will we have to continually download firmware updates or bin patches for our Real IDs? And if so, how will people below the poverty line be able to stay plugged into a secure system?

It's not as simple or ideal a solution as you are pointing out. The best deterrent against abuse is exercising caution, diligence and monitoring of your own identity profile. But as usual, big government has a solution where they nanny all of us, lowering our natural inclination to defend our information, with the "assumed" trust that they will do a better job of it. Remember, these are the same people who lean whichever way the winds of lobbyists are blowing, and are the most notoriously inefficient corporation in the land.

Exactly. That is what I wrote.

I respect that you are open to it. That's your right. I'm just not getting where in you think the RealID will be any more secure than what we already have. The people who commit fraud are smart, creative and tenacious. I see this causing a lot more problems as citizens get lazy thinking the RealID will protect them, along with the habit of government to cover up intrusions and backdoors under their watch to create a whole new scheme of abuse.

PM me if you find one. I fend for myself, and I'm totally sick of the increased cradle to grave interference of so-called independent and conservative governments.

 

That's the great thing about real security. It doesn't matter if someone gets your ID number. The RFID tag holds only a single number exactly like your SS card. I don't think people understand what exactly RFID is. RFID cannot store more than a few bytes of information (enough for a very unique ID number). It's not a miniturized harddrive that can store megs or gigs of data.

Unlike your SS card, with Real ID, no one will be able to use that number to get access to your information without real proof that it's you.

I refuse to sign up with any affliate program besides Google AdSense because I don't trust them with my SS number which is required. With RealID there's no risk in giving them my number. Any shady monkey on the street could have my number and they can't do anything with it.

I can control myself not losing my SS number on the street but I can't trust every credit card company or employer to not get hacked.

Like it or not, people must be able to verify your identity. Would you give thousands of dollars based solely on the person's word that they are who they say they are and can be reached at the address they give you?

Would you give an important job to someone based solely on their word that they aren't a criminal?

Your identity is the most vital part of your existance. If you can't prove your identity you can't survive very well. It's not a government conspiracy trying to control you. It's a fact of life. People need to proof that you are who you say you are or they would be a fool to give you anything of value.

I think a lot of people are taking this RealID thing waaaay to personally. It's not about controlling you. It's about stopping identity theft that mostly happens because of things out of your control. Most identity theft happens because information is stolen from some entity that has your number legitimately. With RealID if your number gets stolen you have nothing to worry about. With your SS number, if it gets stolen, get ready for years of fun trying to fix the damage.

 

We already have a card which in most cases you are required to have to get a job... its called a social security number. I think there is a big difference in needing a number and needing it tattooed or stuck underneath your skin.

 

What government is requiring that?

 

Kalvin you´re lost man..

I for one am building a castle and will be stock piling food and AK-47´s.

http://www.unrealid.com/
http://www.realnightmare.org/

 

It's all the same in the mind of a liberal.

 

I am speculating here, but I am reasonably sure that's what they will do, or are already doing. Install RFID readers on poles alone all major roads and track everyone's movements. I am not aware of any hard evidence and no one in the government is talking, but I had a feeling for some time now that this is probably what they want

 

In Texas we have cameras on nearly every red-light or on every building. Here you don’t escape big brother wherever you go, sad that it has come to being totally monitored and controlled. Same with the schools in the area. Every kid has a number. Every parent that wants to pick his or her kid up has a number, or you don’t get your kid, even if they know who you are...

Zzzzzzz

Senator Harry Reid: I just don’t get it. I thought Americans had
become more progressive than that. After all our hard work…and
now it’s all down the drain.
Senator Ted Kennedy: “It was anti-amnesty that did it. So many
of the American people are still negative, narrow-minded and
prejudiced. They just don’t want immigrants in our country.”
Reid: There’s Senator Jeff Sessions. I can’t believe he’s even at the
funeral. He didn’t care anything about Mr. Immigration.
Kennedy: “Hello Senator Sessions. I’m a little surprised to see you
here,” Senator Kennedy chided.
Sessions: “Actually Senator. We just received the results of the
autopsy. I thought some of you might be interested in knowin’
what caused the death.”
Reid: As a matter of fact, we are interested. We were just puzzling
over it when you walked in. You know, we tried so hard to come
up with a solution for this humongous illegal immigrant problem
we’ve got—only to be shot down!
We pretty well concluded that it had to be ‘ol anti-amnesty that
took Mr. Immigration down. To us, it’s pretty obvious.
Kennedy: We’ve decided there’s more racism left in this country
than we thought. It’s a cryin’ shame, too.
It’s almost like some of the senators have never heard of
globalization. The old outdated concepts of nationalism are relics
of the 20th century. All the world is now interdependent, and the
move into global governance is inevitable…with us all breathin’
the same air and drinkin’ the same water, you know.
Reid: So we already pretty much concluded what Mr.
Immigration’s autopsy would reveal. Is that what you came to tell
us, Senator Sessions?
Sessions: Actually, no. Mr. Immigration didn’t die of anti-amnesty,
like most of the news media has reported. As the doctors were
analyzing the cause of death, they remembered that Senator
Kay Bailey Hutchison’s anti-amnesty amendment tried to kill Mr.
Immigration, but it wasn’t successful. Remember…her “Return
Home” amendment, as it was called, required all illegal immigrants
to go home and then come back into the U.S. legally. But it was
voted down. No. Believe it or not, Mr. Immigration didn’t die from
anti-amnesty.
Reid: You know Senator Kennedy, as much as I hate to admit
it, Senator Sessions has a point. If anti-amnesty were going to
kill the bill, it would have happened when Senator Hutchison’s
amendment hit the floor.
Kennedy: I somewhat see what you’re saying. But if it wasn’t antiamnesty
that took Ol’ Immi down, then what in the world was it?
Did they figure it out?
Sessions: Fortunately, the doctors were able to determine the
cause of death. I really think this information may help us to come
up with an acceptable immigration bill next time.
Reid: Well Senator, you’re keeping us in suspense. What was it that
the autopsy revealed about the cause of Mr. Immigration’s death?
Sessions: What the doctors found may be a little bit of a surprise
to you because when Mr. Immigration was on his sick bed, all we
heard from the media was amnesty, amnesty, amnesty. Almost
no one put the finger on the real problem. If they would have, Mr.
Immigration may not have died.
Kennedy: So tell us. What did the autopsy reveal?
(About that time Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and
Senator John McCain joined the group.)
Sessions: They found that Mr. Immigration’s body was absolutely
full of infection. He was infected with Controlitis.
Senator John McCain: With what? What do you mean…
Controlitis? I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Sessions: Well, many of us lawmakers thought the answer to
terrorism was to impose more and more control on people. The
immigration Bill called for giving every American a national ID
card, putting everyone’s information into a national database,
and not allowing them to even hold a job in this country unless
they were numbered and controlled. That’s what is meant by
Controlitis!
Secretary Michael Chertoff : Wait just a minute! There was no
national ID in the Immigration Bill. Sure we’ve got the Real ID Act.
But that’s no national ID!
Sessions: Mr. Chertoff , I’ve got a question for you. Is the Real ID
card that you want every American to have by May of 2008 an ID
card?
Chertoff : Of course. You know it is.
Sessions: Question number two. Was the Real ID card created by a
city law, a state law or a national law?
Chertoff : it was created by a national law. But that doesn’t mean
that it’s a national ID!
Sessions: Mr. Chertoff , if it’s an ID card and if it was created by a
national law, it’s a national ID card…no matter how you twist it or
turn it. And everybody in America knows that…except perhaps
you folks at Homeland Security.
The autopsy shows that it was the national ID provisions of
the bill and the requirement that every American be placed
into a national database in order to hold a job that killed Mr.
Immigration. That’s what the doctors said.
McCain: Did the doctors say how they reached that conclusion?
Sessions: Yes, actually they did. The Baucus-Tester Amendment
called for stripping the Immigration Bill of all its Real ID provisions,
including its requirement of a national database and employment
verification. The doctors noticed that, when the promoters of the
Immigration Bill tried to table the Baucus-Tester Amendment,
they were soundly defeated. This demonstrated to them that the
majority of the senators understood the American people don’t
want to be numbered, tracked in a database and told by the
government whether they can work or not. That’s what caused
the doctors to conclude that Mr. Immigration died of Controlitis.
Kennedy: I reject that conclusion. It sounds like to me that the
doctors performing the autopsy had a political agenda. I still say
it was anti-amnesty that killed Mr. Immigration.
(At this point, Senators Reid and Kennedy drifted away from the
group, huddling in a small room just off the main viewing area of
the funeral parlor.)
Kennedy to Reid: You know that Sessions is right. But we can
never publicly admit it because that’s the whole reason for the
bill. We’ve been waiting 30 years for the chance to establish a
national ID for all Americans. We can’t manage what we can’t
measure. And we can’t measure what we can’t track. And we
can’t track what we can’t number and put into a database.
Reid: Why are the American people so paranoid about being
numbered and tracked anyway? We only want to do it for their
good. How else are we going to keep track of the terrorists?
Kennedy: Well, well! There’s Senator Baucus himself. Let’s work
on him a little bit.
Reid: Hello, Senator Baucus. Reluctant congratulations on your
successful defeat of the Immigration Bill.
Senator Baucus: I didn’t ever expect to hear those words from
your mouth, Senator. But thanks anyway.
Kennedy: I do have to ask you one thing. After all of our efforts
to deal with this huge immigration problem, thanks to you, we’re
right back where we started. Since you didn’t like our deal, what’s
your plan for dealing with 12 million illegal immigrants? Do you
even have one?
Baucus: As a matter of fact, I do. But it’s not forcing everyone
to have a number, a national ID card and their information in a
national database so that we can control them.
Reid: Well, how are you going to control them then?
Baucus: That’s the point! We’re not going to control them.
Americans don’t want to be controlled. They want to be free.
Control and freedom are opposites. Once we set up a system of
control for Americans, the freedoms we’ve enjoyed since the birth
of this nation will be gone.
What we have to do is keep track of non-citizens that are in
America. That’s where we are most vulnerable to terrorism and
other acts of violence against this country.
Reid: But that’s the problem. How do you tell non-citizens from
citizens?
Baucus: It’s really very simple. We have to make sure everyone
that is in the United States is here legally. We can do this with
three simple steps:
We must build a fence along our Mexican border. That’s where
most illegal immigrants are coming across. Israel has proven that
fences do work. San Diego has also proven that they work.
Once the fence is working effectively, we resolve the status of
those immigrants that are already in our country. It may not
be practical or desirable to simply deport them. Some of them
contribute significantly to America’s economy. Furthermore, we
must admit that the U.S. government bears as much responsibility
for them being here as they do. We knew they were coming in by
the millions and purposefully did nothing about it. We wanted
them here for their cheap labor. If amnesty is the only way to clear
up the mess we have created, then we should do what we have to
do to resolve the problem.
We should require every non-citizen employee to present proper
documents showing they have permission to legally work in this
country. Every legal citizen would only have to sign an affidavit
affirming that he or she is an American citizen.
Reid: Wait a minute! Run that by me again. You’re saying that
U.S. citizens will only have to certify in writing that they are legal
citizens in order to get a job?

Baucus: Yes. That’s all. I anticipate the form reading something like this:

United States Citizenship Certification
WARNING TO EMPLOYEE: Making false statements on this document is a felony and will be
punished by 40 years in prison. NO EXCEPTIONS! STRICTLY ENFORCED!
Under penalty of perjury, I hereby affirm that I am a citizen of the United States of America.
__________________________________________
Signature of employee
WARNING TO EMPLOYER: Making false statements on this document by you is a felony that
will be punished by 40 years in prison. NO EXCEPTIONS! STRICTLY ENFORCED!
Under penalty of perjury, I hereby affirm that I have read aloud the warning above to prospective
employee (Full Name) , and that he/she has fully understood the warning and the
severe penalties of any false statement on this form.
__________________________________________
Employer’s signature
Reid: And you think THAT will work? They will just lie about it.
Baucus: They probably will until the first liar is put into prison
for 40 years. Then, all of a sudden, all of the illegals that have lied
will be going to their employers asking for their forms back…and
leaving their jobs. And we won’t need a national ID card, a national
database or an employment verification system!
Reid: That will never work. It’s way too simple.
(About that time, Senator Jon Tester and Senator Jim DeMint, seeing
the animated conversation in progress, quietly joined the group.
Tester was the co-sponsor of the Baucus-Tester Amendment that
ultimately killed the Immigration Bill, and DeMint fought aggressively
to defeat the bill.)
Baucus: All of our complicated solutions haven’t worked. Maybe
all we need is a simple, down-to-earth solution. Senator Reid, all
we have to do is enforce our laws. We are like parents that don’t
know how to raise children. We tell them we are going to do
something, but we never do it. Consequently, they don’t pay any
attention to us anymore.
Kennedy: I’m against it. That’s inhumane. That would constitute
cruel and unusual punishment. Furthermore, these people need
to work, and we need their labor in this country.
Baucus: If we need their labor here, then raise the annual quotas
of immigrants allowed to come here legally. But don’t allow them
to keep coming here illegally.
Senator, how would you feel if, when you went home this evening,
you found a stranger had moved into one of your spare bedrooms
without your permission? You wouldn’t stand for it one minute!
What if he wouldn’t leave? Would you be cruel or inhumane if you
called the police? Of course not! That’s your home.
The same goes for our country. The United States is our home! If
we invite people to move into our home, that’s fi ne. But if they
move in uninvited, we should not be expected to tolerate that.
McCain: There’s one more thing I want to understand concerning
this immigration fight we have just come through. My phone calls
and my mail over the last few days were overwhelmingly against
the Immigration Bill. My constituents were not just against it. They
were passionately against it! A significant percentage of my phone
calls and mail against this bill referred to religious objections to
the Real ID and employment verification. I never did get it. What
was that all about?
Senator Jon Tester: Senator McCain, there is a prophecy in
the Bible foretelling a time on earth when every person will be
required to take a mark or a number. Without this number, a person will not be permitted to buy or sell. If an individual takes
this mark or number called the mark of the beast, that individual will suff er eternal damnation according to the Bible. The
prophecy is 2,000 years old and can be found in Revelation 13:15-18. The scripture teaches that the prophecy will come
to pass at a time when a world government is gaining control. It also states that this numbering system will be the
mechanism employed to force people to do what the government says. With the emergence of globalization,
the World Trade Organization, the World Bank, the World Health Organization, the World Court, and other
global institutions, many people believe the time for the fulfi llment of this prophecy is just ahead of us.
McCain: But aren’t the people that believe this just a small ultra-right religious
fringe? My office was hammered with phone calls, faxes, and emails!!
Tester: Actually, it is not a small fringe of Americans that believe in the
prophecies of the Bible. A 2002 Time/Warner poll discovered that 59
percent of the American people believe the prophecies of the Bible
and a large percentage of them believe the time for the fulfi llment
of these prophecies is now.
McCain: So you’re telling me that a majority of Americans believe a
time will come when every person will be forced to receive a number
and that this number will be required to participate in the economy?
Wow! No wonder my phone’s being ringing off the hook!
This immigration bill requires exactly that!
Tester: Senator, there’s one more thing you should understand.
Even though the prophecy was given 2,000 years ago, its
fulfillment has never been possible until now. Only since the
invention of the computer and the birth of the Internet has it
become possible to implement such a system. Whether you
agree with them or not, many people see the requirement of
the Real ID Act that every person must have an ID card with his
social security number embedded in it or else he or she can’t
hold a job or have a bank account as leading to this biblical
prophecy. After all, without a job and without a bank account,
how much buying and selling will a person be able to do?
Senator Jim DeMint: You know, I read the funniest thing
the other day. The possibility of establishing a national ID
card came up during a cabinet meeting of the Reagan
Administration.
McCain: You mean way back in the 1980s? They were
promoting a national ID way back then?
DeMint: Absolutely. This national ID is not a new idea. Those
who want to obtain socialistic control over the lives of every
American are trying to sell this national ID as the answer to 9/11
and terrorism. But they don’t care how they sell it, just as long
as they get control!
McCain: So what did Reagan say when the subject was raised?
DeMint: You’re not going to believe it! He said, “That’s the mark
of the beast!”
Tester: He said that about establishing a national ID? That’s
funny! Now all the Republican candidates for president are
trying to win the nomination by claiming to be like Reagan.
But they’re all voting for the national ID, except for
Ron Paul from Texas.
McCain: So the doctors are right! It was national identification
and employment verification that brought the immigration
bill down! Interesting!

 

Either Robbert has too much free time and an overactive imagination or he's copying and pasting stuff from a secret web-site that even Google can't find.

vs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

If you're worried about it, all you have to do is put your Real ID in an aluminum hat...I mean sleeve.

Oh, what's that? The government already puts the tinfoil hat on your card for you??! But but but they want to be able to track you without you knowing!

So much paranoia over a little plastic card that is already in use in Belgium and for passports all over the world. The only way to reliably read your Real ID is to have you pull it out of your wallet and let someone scan it. Nothing they don't already do with driver's licenses and other government issued ids.