http://www.regnum.ru/english/852694.html Nice, ehh? Someone here was arguing that in Estonia they dont follow Hitler. Where is he ?
This is horrible, but please don't make generalizations about Estonia or its people based on this idiot's, well, idiocy. You come from Russia. You know the story. Once Hitler and Stalin made their little sweetheart deal, the Estonian people were condemned to 50 years plus of cultural rape and colonial ruin under Soviet suzerainty. That they ended Soviet occupation in songs of national cohesion, and not a bloodbath, is a tribute to the character of the Estonian people. I should know. The blood of my wife's family is painted on Siberian soil. Here, a one-time interest. I wanted to look at violent crime, higher in Russia, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania than anywhere else in the EU. Highest in Estonia along the corridor leading to Russia. I went in blind, as well as I humanly could, and went to data first to see - why the violence? What I found is summarized in the abstract below: Abstract Estonia’s development since achieving independence from the Soviet Union has received considerable scholarly attention within the field of post-Soviet republic studies, particularly in the area of ethno-politics. This paper analyzes Estonian state capacity in terms of one rarely used marker – violent crime. If one key measure of state capacity is the state’s ability to impose the rule of law, this paper seeks to test a hypothesis – that the relative level of state capacity within Estonia can be causally linked to the relative strength of autonomous, historically embedded “Estonian†institutions, actors and processes as they vary across Estonia. The paper utilizes sub-national cases selected by geographic and functional attributes. The paper will analyze whether within Estonia, where “Estonian†institutional legacy is weak, and vestiges of Soviet-era “agency†actors and institutions remained strong post-independence, violent crime found fertile ground, and state capacity remained poor.(Footnote 1) Footnote 1: Note: The Soviet command economy and system of “internal colonialism†artificially encouraged some industries over others within the Soviet satellite states. Within Estonia, resource extraction industries were favored though Estonia was an otherwise resource poor state. Relatedly, prestige and job advancement was by sector rather than professional ability or other “rational†criteria (See Pettai and Hallik). In those areas where professional privilege under the Soviet system was strongest, it has been argued that the picture essentially turned on its head with the collapse of the Soviet system. Those of erstwhile high rank precipitously fell in prestige, while those of previous low rank achieved status, particularly in legislative and governmental posts. This study will seek to discern political economic patterns along these lines by city and region. I intuit that in those areas where soviet-era actors, once highly esteemed and highly placed, were, after independence, rapidly displaced and marginalized, I would expect a struggle to regain status and lost power – through existing social networks, which may include, in some instances, instruments of organized crime and related violence. With 90% of non-ethnic Estonians living in cities, and of those, over 50% concentrated in Tallinn and another 30% northeastward to the Russian Federation, demographic patterns are highly clustered and salient for the purposes of this analysis. Data Used 1. Burnham, R.W., and Helen Burnham. UNITED NATIONS WORLD SURVEYS ON CRIME TRENDS AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEMS, 1970-1994: RESTRUCTURED FIVE-WAVE DATA [Computer file]. ICPSR version. Washington, DC: U.S. Dept. of Justice, National Institute of Justice [producer], 1997. Ann Arbor, MI: Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research [distributor], 1999. 2. United Nations Office at Vienna, Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice Branch. UNITED NATIONS WORLD CRIME SURVEYS: FIFTH SURVEY, 1990-1994 [Computer file]. ICPSR version. United Nations Office at Vienna, Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice Branch [producer], 1997. Ann Arbor, MI: Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research [distributor], 2003. 3. World Health Organization (WHO), World Report on Violence and Health, 2002. Selected Relevant Literature Pettai, Vello and Hallik, Klara, ‘Understanding Processes of Ethnic Control: Segmentation, Dependency and Co-Optation in Post-Communist Estonia,’ Nations and Nationalism 8 (4), 2002, 505-529. Mettam, Colin W. and Williams, Stephen Wyn, ‘Internal Colonialism and Cultural Divisions of Labour in the Soviet Republic of Estonia,’ Nations and Nationalism 4 (3), 1998, 363-88. Smith, G., The Baltic States: The National Self-Determination of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, London: Macmillan, 1994. Smith, G., ‘The Soviet Federation: from Corporatist to Crisis Politics’, in M. Chisholme and D.M. Smith (eds.), Shared Space, Divided Space, London: Unwin Hyman, 1994, pp. 158-180. Raun, Toivo U., Estonia and the Estonians, Stanford: Hoover Institution Press, 1991. Raun, Toivo U., ‘The Re-Establishment of Estonian Independence,’ Journal of Baltic Studies 22 (3), 1991, 251-258. LaFree, Gary and Tseloni, Andromachi, ‘Democracy and Crime: A Multilevel Analysis of Homicide Trends in Forty-Four Countries, 1950-2000,’ Annals, AAPSS, 605, May, 2006, pp. 26-49. LaFree, Gary, and Drass, Kriss A., ‘Counting Crime Booms Among Nations: Evidence for Homicide Victimization Rates, 1956 to 1998,’ Criminology, 40 (4), 2002, pp. 769-799. Nørgaard, Ole, et al, The Baltic States After Independence, Brookfield, U.S.: Edward Elgar, 1996. Stavenhagen, Rodolfo, Ethnic Conflicts and the Nation State, London: Macmillan, 1996. Presentation Conference (calls for papers not yet established) 1. Association for the Advancement of Baltic Studies. Next biennial conference to take place in 2008, in Bloomington, IN, at Indiana University: http://depts.washington.edu/aabs/conferences.html 2. European Consortium for Political Research – Joint Session of Workshops, 7-12 May, 2007. http://www.essex.ac.uk/ecpr/events/jointsessions/helsinki/index.aspx Journal Submission 1. Comparative Politics, no acceptance ratio data available. 2. Journal of Baltic Studies, http://depts.washington.edu/aabs/publications-journal.html; no acceptance ratio available.
I know all that, but I'd rather be a communist than a Hitler lover Oh, and by the way, Stalin did all them things to all nations, including the ones that lived in USSR, including my grandad, etc that was departed to Kazakstan and half of the family died.
Agreed, I'd rather be a true communist than a Hitler lover, though I'd refuse to be either. But there has never been a true communist, to my knowledge, as anything other than the head of a local cell, as existed in France during the latter 1800's. Stalin was no communist. I don't understand your last paragraph too well. Of course, it goes without saying that Stalin "did those things" to the countries under USSR occupation, by definition. Also by definition, the USSR included more than Russia, with oblasts, SSR's, etc. and other levels of autonomy accorded the occupied countries. If what you are saying is that many peoples suffered, not just the Baltic peoples, of course I agree with you. I am truly sorry for what your dad's family suffered. It was an evil time. I also return to your original post, in which you moved from one asshole's wrong to equating the Estonian people with "following Hitler." It was the wrong thing to think and say. Estonia has lived under occupation for centuries - at various times, Poles, Swedes, Russians and Germans have had their hand in the pie - and they have earned a well-deserved independence. Postscript, I predict this guy's downfall.
Not countries under USSR occupation, but the ppl who lived in his own country, without any occupation, he tortured them too, including russians, he didnt give a damn who is it, that's what I was saying It wouldnt be so dangerous if it was just an Estonian person (we have actually them idiots too, mostly in S. Petersburg, but they dont rule in government), but when it's a minister, that works for government and have power - then it's a different story.
NFS - you said: Hence, my confusion, since many nations lived under the USSR, I thought you were talking about occupied countries outside the Russian SSR - particularly since you mentioned your father's family was sent to Kazakhstan. I know he killed everyone, within and without Russia proper. I have met his grandaughter. Her mom (Svetlana) seems to be one of the few he harbored tender feelings for. Regarding the Foreign Minister and the play, it seems the truth of the matter is quite possibly very far from what you originally posted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rein_Lang NFS, my only issue is that in your original post you intimated the Estonian people are nazis, or "Hitler followers." I think at best this was simply the wrong thing to say.
Communists have killed more people than NAZI's, but both are equally as bad in my opinion. He had a play about the last days of Hitler for his birthday party. Well next time you bring a clown to yours lets harass you because clowns are evil demonic beings who scare children... Mk, final question - "Why does this matter?" It was his birthday, he wanted to see the play and recreate the atmosphere of the play, and also to make it something to do. I mean, good lord, why don't we ban all controversial plays then? Let's not allow anything that has any religion and politics in it! To hell with freedom, Barney Uber Alles!