E-Mail & Hosting

Is it possible to transfer a domain to a new host but leaving the e-mail as it is with the current/old host?

Thanks.

 

Yes; but you need to tell the new host that you need them to modify your zone file to reflect the old server MX records, if they are start of authority. Very important. I suggest having the new host change it as soon as your account is setup; but before you transfer your dns.

 

So if I get this right:

To transfer completely, my current host has to change the ISP tag to my new host's name. Then the new host will take control from there by instructing the DNS server to look at the new zone file. There won't be any period of being offline and e-mail will this way transfer smoothly as well.

Option 2 is to not shift any DNS settings but just to let current host point domain name to the new IP/Server name. (This would leave e-mail etc. the same, jsu tchange the physical location / IP of the new site)

Another alternative could be to have the MX records set to my old e-mail servers and thus keep e-mail settings?

Would there be any reason to justify keeping e-mail with old host? Is there a fair chance the new host will mess up the transfer and we'd be offline and e-mails get lost for 24 hours or longer? I mean if the old host keys in the name servers and the ISP tag correctly, how else can be go pearshaped?

Thanks for your insight.

 

This depends on who the start of authority for your dns is; either the old host or the new host. If the new host has control of your zone file; then they need to change your mx records in their system. If you are going to use the old host as the soa; then you simply point the domain name itself to the new host.

Correct.

Yes.

None. The only reason I personally can see for having mx records elsewhere; is if you happen to have a mail server in house at your office. Having your dns spread all over the internet can cause *alot* of headaches.

What I suggest that you do when transferring to a new host is leave the old site up for a few days until the domain name is fully propagated. That way you can check both the old account (with your ip address) and the new. You may or may not suffer some mail delay; but mail should't be lost. After you've put in the transfer; put a 301 redirect on the old site to go to the new; check mail; when mail is no longer going to the old account; cancel.

 

Why would you not have your email with the host that provides your web space? I don't understand your thinking here. There may be a matter of a few hours where email could be misrouted depending on how the dns updates propagate. The slight inconvenience is not worth the hassle of dealing with disparate systems.

 

Alot of people do this, whatever their reasons are. And boy; does it cause headaches!

 

That's what I thought but the current host suggested it'd be easier to leave everything but the site's location. And they pointed out the chance of the new host to mess it up leaving us nowhere in nowhere land.

We will shift everything now I've spoken to both again, ran throught the domain transfer, and read what you two said.

What would be the use of a 301 though if my address/URL stays the same but just ends up at a new IP on a new server? As soon as the domain routes through to the new IP, G and others would never even be able to get to the old IP anymore would they? The old one is a virtual hosting deal so by typing the IP in the browser you still can't get there coz there are 20+ sites on that IP. Or am I missing something here?

Loosing rankings is what I expect but duplicate content won't be an issue though will it? As soon as I've uploaded the site to the new server I'll delete the old ones after I see it is working as expected.

So what I will do now is:
- Tell current host to change ISP tag.
(do they need the new server name for anything? The new host did give it to me but it didn't seem that important.)
- Sign up for new hosting deal.
- Wait till new hosting account is setup (whilst in the meanwhile the site still works from the old server, so does e-mail).
- Tell new host to point domain name to new server and voila. All done...

No MX stuff or Zone Files etc. needed in the process do I?

 

That's why you leave the old site up for a bit. Stuff happens; but you are more likely to run into problems by having your dns in two places.

The 301 is for the spiders. The only reason I recommended this is because when I changed servers several months ago; in the beginning of my seo journey; I left my old site up; and it did get crawled. I did suffer a light penalty; but it stressed me out so bad! I didn't know about the 301 redirect then either. By doing the 301; you shouldn't get penalized for dupe content. You're just telling the spiders that you moved.

Wait. You've thrown me here.

First; sign up with the new account, upload your stuff and setup email.
Then you change your dns. But you say:

- Tell current host to change ISP tag.
(do they need the new server name for anything? The new host did give it to me but it didn't seem that important.)-

Are you transferring all dns to the new account? If so; you need to change your dns info with your registrar - where you registered the domain name with (the plot thickens)

 

I want to transfer the lot now.

New host says sign up after the ISP tag change so they can take it from there.

Is the registrar the Registrant's Agent in Whois lookup? If so then current host equals registrar. So if they are the same people, then ISP tag change on our domain name is all that is needed for new host to take it over?

I still don't understand how a spider can get to the old site if there is no way to get there (Domain name brings you to new server won't it? Or do spiders crawl by IP addresses and can they access virtual host sites?).

Thanks again for your help. I want to avoid downtime at all costs and be able to understand what will happen/what is involved so both hosts can't give me any shite.

 

I would sign up with the new host first - this is because they will generate a new zone file for you. Then; change the nameserver info. When the dns cache updates; it will automatically start pulling from the new host.

Anything can happen; you want to make sure everything is setup correctly on the new host before transferring dns. If there is a problem; at least you can fall back on the old host. Otherwise; if there is a problem with the new host; you've transferred dns; no site no mail and you're up to your tookas in alligators.

Yes; so you are good to go then.

I believe some do; maybe not all; and I am not an expert on this. I just know from what I experienced; Google crawled both the old site and the new.

No problem. Changing hosts can be a harrowing experience.

 

'Change nameserver info' is what they refer to as changing ISP tag to their name?

I got the impression they couldn't even sign me up without a domain name pointed at it. You think they should be able to do that? How do I FTP upload when I don't have a domain aiming at it. Just by IP? So by providing username and password, the IP is enough to upload files to our own little area of space on their drives and then when it is all there, we get the registrar to change name server / ISP tag info and voila.

What is a zone file by the way? Is that the file which tells incoming requests which site is where on the server and via which IP's?

Thanks so much again.

 

Basically.

You can point your domain name anywhere you want to. It doesn't mean it will work, however. In order for it to resolve correctly; the host must have a zone file for you. Until the domain name resolves; you use your ip address as your hostname.

A zone file is a text file that is created on the host server. The active zone file is what the internet sees right now; and it contains your dns records: mail records; A records, cname records. Computers look for numbers first - the ip address and tries to resolve that number to a name. Kinda like looking in the phone book; except in reverse. The zone file is the "phone book".

 

OK I think I understand it. So I rang the new host and proposed doing as suggested by you. But they say they can't (perhaps just won't) do it that way.

They want me to change ISP tag / name server info with current host/registrar first. Then sign up, log on, upload and sit on my arse and wait for the worldwide dns update/propagation. And now all of a sudden they do mention downtime of up to 24hrs.

Is downtime inevitable when swapping hosts?

I asked the guy if it wasn't the case that when waiting for the DNS update, even with name servers/ISP tags changed, the domain still would lead to the old servserspace and only when the DNS update gone through, it would pull data from the new. He didn't really give me a satisfactory answer.

Is a domain then indeed pointing to nowhere land as soon as you change name server info & ISP tag whilst you wait for the DNS update?

And finally, am I right in thinking it works like this:

Change ISP tag & Name Server basically means 'Hey, now look here for this site' --> DNS bot whatever has a look there --> reads zonefile numbers --> relates them to domain name --> then updates its DNS cache saying 'Hey, this site can now be found here' --> Then it takes a few hours to propagate world-wide. And then this whole cycle can take up to 24hrs.

 

In my experience the ISPs I've dealt with are more than happy to give you the keys, let you move in and get comfortable first. Only a few months ago I had access to a new host so that I could test a client's site to ensure everything still worked fine before the changeover...

 

Who are you moving to if you don't mind me asking? I have heard of this; can't remember the company but it was the registrar - not the hosting company requiring that the domain name first be set up on the new server. But essentially; they wanted to see the new zone file. So we created the account; generated a zone file and they transferred. They were not a US company.

Yes; there is always the possibility of downtime. I would never dream of telling a customer that oh it will be absolutely problem free, cause you just never know. As the technology gets better; the downtime issues diminish and most of the time there is no problem, but it can and does happen.

If you do it the way the new company is telling you; then yes; you're going to have downtime, but I can't understand why you have to point to them first. This is unfair to you; and doesn't make sense.

It takes a few hours; depending on the Time to live on the old and new servers.

Generally; you switch your domain name at the registrar. For a few hours the domain name still points to the old server; and propagation has begun. Suddenly; the site will seem to disappear. This may or may not last. Chances are that you in your part of the world can't see your site; but I could from another part of the world - see one of the two sites. As propagation continues; your site could be seen on both the old and the new server, depending on where the user is in the world. It doesn't happen all at once, it takes anywhere from a few hours to 3 or 4 days, usually somewhere in between, then you won't be able to see the site on the old server any longer. That's the whole point of keeping up the old site.

Make it more like 48 hours for you to be operating perfectly, but you've got the gist of it.

I would suggest calling the new company back; insist on speaking to supervisor - and ask them why you must point to them first.

 

They are a big ISP: www.clara.net in the UK and all over mainland Europe.

I'm actually more worried about the e-mail going down or walkies dan the site. The e-mail system deals with all company communication. Probably have to do it over the weekend when traffic is low anyway. Are there DNS updates over the weekend? Do ISP tech engineers work 7 days a week?

 

Make sure to leave your old account up: don't cancel it till the domain name propagates. The weekend - or your slow time - is the next best thing. Then at least you can check for mail via the ip on the old account. DNS updates automatically, no need for human intervention.

 

depends on your MX entry - don't deal with clara but if your entry is something like mydomain.com it will just follow a new IP.

If you change from small to large within a provider they should look after this and guarantee...

When I upgrade I always make sure that I have a new IP for the upgrade thus you can switch at any time and leave the old settings, you may have to use a direct aproach to connect to the old one like oldip/~mydomain.com alternatively you can set a catch all just before the switch...

Provider should advise.

M

PS Yes it works 24/7 just changed a domain Saturday at 10pm started on the new set Sunday 1am (UK times) last access to old was at 3am Sunday.

 

It all worked out that weekend just fine. Started everything on Friday and by Monday everything was pulling from the new server. No downtime or e-mail lost (that I've heard of/noticed).