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Dropped from dmoz after a year and a half.

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by iconrate, May 24, 2005.

  1. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #81
    You've missed the point. I don't doubt that DMOZ has problems, hardware and otherwise. The "utter crap" part is that your conclusion that Google's decreased interest in DMOZ was the result of Google not being able to download DMOZ dumps -- as I pointed out, even with DMOZ it's a little hard to believe that they let those problems persist for 2 years give or take... are you suggesting that Google is now regularly updating the DMOZ dumps?
     
    minstrel, May 29, 2005 IP
  2. Genie

    Genie Peon

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    #82
    Yes Google has returned to updating the Google Directory roughly once a month.

    According to those who watch these things, the Google Directory updated from Dmoz:
    on October 18th 2004.
    on November 14th 2004.
    on or before December 17th 2004.
    on or before January 18th 2005.
    on or before March 5th 2005.
    on or before May 25th 2005.

    The gap in April was because there was a problem at the Dmoz end in creating a new RDF, which was resolved on April 29th.
     
    Genie, May 30, 2005 IP
  3. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #83
    minstrel, May 30, 2005 IP
  4. Genie

    Genie Peon

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    #84
    Source is Webmaster World and Dmoz internal forums. But you can check for yourself to some extent using the Internet Archive.

    I think there are separate issues here.

    1. The declining interest in directories
    It is generally accepted that directories have slumped in popularity with the rise of search engines that do a reasonable job in providing relevant results. SEs are now the first choice search tool for the great majority of Internet users.

    Yahoo! now gives less prominence to its directory; Google moved the link to Dmoz off its front page; MSN dropped Looksmart. A Google spokesman stated that the move was because insufficient users clicked on the directory link and front page real estate is precious. They added a link to Froogle instead.

    2. The rate at which downstream users update from Dmoz
    That varies enormously. Some sites don't bother at all. They pick up a copy and then stick with it. Some are years out of date. Some make more effort. Some would like to update, but hit technical problems with the RDF. Some scrape live.

    Google has been one of the most regular in updating from the RDF, except for a period between May 2003 and March 2004, during which there was only one update. Google tactfully refrained from blaming Dmoz, but sent out boiler-plate replies to anxious queries, along the lines that they were aware of the problem and working with the Open Directory to resolve it. That was a period in which there were numerous errors in the Dmoz RDF.

    Google engineers would be shooting themselves in the foot by maintaining a directory that was years out of sync with the original. It would be full of the expired domains and hijacked sites that they are trying to keep out of the SERPs. It makes sense for them to strive to keep the Google Directory reasonably current, or drop it altogether. (Yes I know which you would prefer!)
     
    Genie, May 30, 2005 IP
  5. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #85
    That's always the problem with this sort of "statistic": Obviously, only DMOZ editors can access the DMOZ internal forums, and a post at WMW (or any other forum) is usually just someone's opinion without any supporting evidence.

    So we are left again choosing between taking DMOZ's word for it or assuming, usually without good reason, that the forum poster is accurately stating actual stats.

    And if you compare DMOZ listings with Google Directory listings, it's not difficult to find differences. That's something that suggests to me the two directories are still out of synch and that doesn't rely on anyone "saying so".
     
    minstrel, May 30, 2005 IP
  6. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #86
    This is also related to your point #1. As I said elsewhere, I don't think Google is keeping the Directory because they think it's wonderful. I think (a) they have been focused on more urgent projects, and (b) they haven't yet made a decision as to whether to dump the Directory altogether or revamp it as a true Google Directory. I don't think "(c) stay with DMOZ" is a viable option for them whatsoever. I just don't think it's high on the priority list at the moment.
     
    minstrel, May 30, 2005 IP
  7. macdesign

    macdesign Peon

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    #87
    The DMOZ directory and the Google directory can never be in sync even when all runs smoothly.

    The RDF file takes time to create, during which time, more change/deletes/adds are happening. Google then has to recognize a new RDF is available, download it and update their directory. Their update process is sometimes strange, there are cases where a search in Google finds a site that should be there, but actually does not show up. My guess is they update in stages over a period of time.

    I would think that in ideal conditions you can expect the Goolgle directory to be two to four weeks behind the ODP directory.
     
    macdesign, May 30, 2005 IP
  8. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #88
    Understood and not disputed.

    I suspect you're right. And I think that gives weight to my assumption that the Directory just isn't a Google priority at present.
     
    minstrel, May 30, 2005 IP
  9. Genie

    Genie Peon

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    #89
    The only way to be totally up to date with Dmoz is to scrape from Dmoz live. Some directories do, but it puts unacceptable pressure on Dmoz servers and is discouraged. Google has always used the RDF dump. Currently the Google Directory reflects the state of Dmoz around April 22nd.

    Those who watch updates are interested in knowing whether changes have gone through, whether it is webmasters/SEOs or editors. Typically someone posts a report and several other people then check their areas of interest and comment. False reports would soon be spotted! I have personally checked most of the reports I listed above, but like I say you don't have to take other people's word for it. This is something that you can check for yourself.
     
    Genie, May 30, 2005 IP
  10. spike

    spike Peon

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    #90
    >> Google has been one of the most regular in updating from the RDF, except for a period between May 2003 and March 2004, during which there was only one update. <<

    ... which co-incides with the server overload problems (no, or buggy, RDF), server updates (no RDF), and UTF-8 migration (RDF with errors).

    Many public forums contained announcements from ODP editors at key points in the hardware, software, and data upgrades. They are all out there in the internet history.

    A search at webmasterworld, jimworld, ihelpyou, cre8asite, and others will fill in the rest of the story.
     
    spike, May 30, 2005 IP