I thought this was an interesting article: Source: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=43&ItemID=9048
Some info I haven't heard before, but honestly I don't mind giving up alittle "freedom" if it makes things safer for my family and myself. If the FBI suspects someone in my city of being a terrorist, I don't want them to have to go through months of court orders and paperwork to find out, by then it might be too late. As terror threats continue, America has a choice to make. Either change or stay the same. If we're getting hit by planes today, then tomorrow we need to have procedures in place to prevent that. Insanity is to continue to do the same thing and expect different results. Those changes above that allows the FBI, etc. to "snoop" would affect probably .00000001% of the population. Those folks probably need to be checked up on anyways.
Great article. I've been noticing several of those changes, and I don't believe they're all necessary to protect us from terrorists. It saddens me to see so many of our liberties quietly go down the drain.
Yea, I have been kind of looking into this for awhile. Its why I started http://www.peakfreedom.org. I havn't really been advertising, heck I don't think I have posted on it for a month. But if anyone wants to check it out and or run it let me know.
Complete liberal crap. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made to protect national security. And what freedoms have you lost personally?
^ Normal Bush Supporter. All of our freedoms are gone, currently we only live under the guise of freedom. Since long before the patriot act and homeland security, this country has slowly begun to fall to peices. This once great nation is no longer. We are not 'THE' world power; though the people are to obesessed with nascar and reality tv to understand this. We use to be a great nation of hope, ideals, fortune. Now without the support of the other nations who provide us our energy we are nothing but a hollow empty shell.
It does not matter if you 'personally' are effected, not sure if I should chalk this statement up to 'complete republican crap' 'complete moron crap' or 'benadict arnold style crap?' Protect the home land at the cost of risking what the home land was founded on and the fricking US CONSTITUTION, let me ask you Ned have you ever even read it? As in reading the actual law itself, but I guess I should say the constitution as well as I don't believe you've read either.
The problem with dictatorships is that people will lose a lot of rights and freedoms without even noticing it. People start to censor their own thoughts, speech and actions because they are afraid. There has never been and never will be a dictatorship that can have one policeman for every citizen. the most effective form of dictatorship is when people start policing themselves. Let me give you an example, let's say you are an average Joe who cheats a little bit on his tax (may be you didn't declared the toolbox you got from your work) and possibly had an affair with some one at work. If you know that certain web sites are in government blacklist and if you visit that web site, it is possible that FBI will start to investigate your financial and personal life, will you take the chance to visit the site and risk your tax situation or cheating come to light? How about if you know that certain books will trigger an investigation, if you buy it or borrow it from Library, will you take the chance? How about if there is a discussion club at your work and you know that you can become a target of investigation, will you participate and express your opinion? There is almost 300,000,000 people in USA and no government has the possibility to imprison even 10% of population but with passing certain laws and making an environment that people are frighten and unsure about their safety, each of these people will become their own jailer.
That and the rest of this administration. As I mentioned in previous post, the idea is to make you so scared that you will become your own policeman and constantly monitor yourself that you should not say or do anything that you could be arrested and punished for.
That will be the only place that people will feel safe after a while; in their own head. I have been to middle eastern countries where people believe that 50% of population is working as government spy, so every time 2 person start to talk, they are both worried that the other one is a spy and they should be careful what they say about the government. Of course this is not true and no government can employ 50% of population as spies but it is effective and keeps people quite. They can not do that in USA but they can make people believe that your every action, visiting web site, email, shopping, borrowing from library, telephone calls is watched and listened to and you will try your best not to say or to do anything that can attract government attention. Nobody wants to be arrested or punished, so it is just natural that people will start to give up on their rights and freedom instead of taking the risk of being arrested. This is not future, this is present situation and it is already happening. When I studied in university, I had some classmates from Iran. These guys have been living all their adult life in USA and are American citizens and they work for big companies. In fact one of my friend is a vice president of big public company that I am sure you have their product on your computers. Any way, I was talking with one of these guys over the phone a couple of month ago and we started to talk about the war in Iraq and my friend told me that we should not discuss this because he is sure that all their telephones is monitored. I don't know if his telephone calls was monitored or not (most likely not) but the important point is that he was ready to censor his speech and opinion because he was afraid and this is a guy who is an American citizen, has been living in USA for over 30 years, has an important job and never had a problem with law. He has an American wife and all his children are born in USA. The question is, how long does it take until everyone feels like this?
You are idiots. Sorry, there is no other way to say it. Anyone who thinks that forfeiting liberty for the sake of security is a fool. Those that believe giving up the liberties and freedoms our forefathers fought and died for, will loose both freedom and security. Only a total police state would be "secure" because everyone would be too scared they would be hauled off and "processed" by the government. My blood boils when liberal pansies spew off this "if it makes me safe" $hit!
I was agreeing with you until you stated this bull shit. It's George Bush and our current governemt that's behind the patriot act... NOT LIBERALS.
Continues here: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-allsaints7nov07,0,6769876.story?coll=la-home-headlines