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DREAMWEAVER Junkies??

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by microtekblue, Jan 18, 2008.

?

Do you use Dreamweaver in your Everyday Web Development???

  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    19.0%
  3. Sometimes

    14.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. microtekblue

    microtekblue Well-Known Member

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    #21
    I am not talking about making simple HTML pages. I am a PRO WEB DEVELOPER...Like I went to school for this lol...You know college....you pay them money...then they teach you stuff.

    Even in college they don't make you code by hand. It is just stupid. Because it takes you longer and is less efficient. I actually LEARNED Dreamweaver IN COLLEGE..SO I don't get your whole idea of making websites in just simple notepad. I mean its not wrong, but its not the way the NEW generation of web developers are doing it anymore. And yess I am calling you old lolll!!

    And I don't make any type of site that is nested tables anymore. I only will make xhtml and css3 standard sites.

    ...and DW CS3 makes that part much easier!
     
    microtekblue, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  2. blurredfringe

    blurredfringe Member

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    #22
    DW is one of my fave tool. works efficiently for me :)
     
    blurredfringe, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  3. Astroman

    Astroman Well-Known Member

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    #23
    I use Dreamweaver every day and have been doing since 1999. I mostly use it in code view though,the css help gets better all the time and it's really handy for reminding you of codes you might otherwise forget about.

    It's also very useful for finding and replacing stuff in more complex ways than notepad could. Manipulating tables, merging columns and stuff, is pretty much instant with Dreamweaver too - there's just so much stuff that it does that can save you time, but I could never use it in design view only, some things you have to see for yourself.
     
    Astroman, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  4. yooozy

    yooozy Well-Known Member

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    #24
    I like dreamweaver it's the best but I like old versions of it you know it's getting bigger and more complicated
     
    yooozy, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  5. microtekblue

    microtekblue Well-Known Member

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    #25
    Yea thats what I do...I'm always in split view. I have to see the coding at the same time.
     
    microtekblue, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  6. Astroman

    Astroman Well-Known Member

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    #26
    I used to use split view, but I don't need to anymore. I just use code view all the time, upload files with Cute FTP and check designs on the web. I guess in the days before broadband it would have been too tedious to do things that way, but now it's just as easy for me to upload the changes and check it in a browser and see it properly.

    Most of the stuff I do is all PHP/TPL template files so there's nothing to see in design view anyway.
     
    Astroman, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  7. microtekblue

    microtekblue Well-Known Member

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    #27
    Yea u know what I do sometimes when editing TPL files...I open a new HTML document and copy and past the TPL code into that...then it gives you the design view of the template.

    I do that for my forum site..I use phpbb.
     
    microtekblue, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  8. zytex

    zytex Well-Known Member

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    #28
    homesite all the way! I only use dreamweaver when i am forced to use a mac.
     
    zytex, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  9. Astroman

    Astroman Well-Known Member

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    #29
    That's a useful idea if you're not sure which bits do what. PHPBB is a good example where Dreamweaver can be used successfully, you can view the source of a particular bit of code with Firefox online, then use Dreamweaver to search the entire local site, or just the template folder, for that code and see where it is. It may come up in a few files but it wont take long to find out it's in overallheader.tpl, overallfooter.tpl or wherever.

    Dreamweaver's also great for copying the template codes out of your vBulletin backend, pasting them into dreamweaver and saving a safe copy, then doing some jiggery pokery and pasting it back into vBulletin again. :)
     
    Astroman, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  10. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #30

    Calling me old? I am 14 - the newest generation of coders - and I have done TAFE for Dreamweaver and Flash, and it taught you more or les how to not code a website - inline styles and scripts, messy nested elements and one of the grown men in the class got 49 validation errors when I checked out his final assignment, in fact I think I was the only one who got a valid website.. And I am also not talking simple HTML pages, I write complex PHP scripts, and integrate designs for Wordpress, PHProxy and Drupal - by hand in Notepad++, and I will sometimes you Dreamweaver for really tedis things that it can't do wrong such as tables - but I rarely use tables.

    You see the majority of professors in colleges are just that - professors, not professional web developers. Just because they teach it, doesn't mean its the right way to do it. I know that this year, after the holidays, I will be doing Flash and Dreamweaver again in computer class, and I am looking forward to - instead of spending half an hour in Dreamweaver to make a basic template with crap code - coding it out in 5 or 6 minutes by hand.

    Why do I code by hand?

    1.Clean, semantic code that passes standards tests and works on all browsers the first time

    2. Much less editing is needed as I have about 30 lines of HTML as opposed to the 60 or so Dreamweaver what output for the same thing.

    3. A valid, strict doctype that is easily indexed by search engines and for other people to read.

    It takes me about a quarter as much time to code it by hand then it does in Dreamweaver.

    And do any of those sites pass validation on a strict doctype? Real xHTML and CSS3 aren't' even usable yet, so using it is kinda pointless. With IE8, xHTML should be usable, but CSS3 is still in development, which is why CSS2 is the standard as far as I am concerned.

    The phpBB editing is a fine idea, but why bother when I can just edit and do a live preview on any browser on localhost?
     
    blueparukia, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  11. microtekblue

    microtekblue Well-Known Member

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    #31
    LOL..ok there mr 14 year old...

    I would have to say then you are more experience than most web developers if you can code by hand.

    AGAIN, I must stress that I never said its a bad idea, but it is not exactly practical for most people..

    If you are able to hand code as you said..then that is terrific.

    Personally I love DW.
     
    microtekblue, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  12. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #32
    Meh, I can't be bothered to type out something again, so lets just leave it at that.
     
    blueparukia, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  13. microtekblue

    microtekblue Well-Known Member

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    #33
    SO when did you learn PHP programming...When you were 12? LOLLL

    Cause damn..if your only 14...I feel embarrassed. ;)
     
    microtekblue, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  14. Astroman

    Astroman Well-Known Member

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    #34
    blueparukia, not that it really matters, but I think microtekblue was talking about "Dreamweaver CS3", as in the latest Adobe product, not CSS3.
     
    Astroman, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  15. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #35
    Ahh ok, my mistake. And no, I learnt PHP, HTML, CSS and Javascript in 2007, while I was still 14, I turn 15 next month.
     
    blueparukia, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  16. soulscratch

    soulscratch Well-Known Member

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    #36
    I find that very hard to believe.

    And AFAIK search engine's dont give a rats ass if your code is valid or not.

    If that is indeed your code, its far from clean.
     
    soulscratch, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  17. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #37
    No idea where you got that from, if its from my sig links - they are all paid links, with the exception of the proxy.

    Cheers,

    BP
     
    blueparukia, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  18. soulscratch

    soulscratch Well-Known Member

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    #38
    Coulda sworn someone was asking for help about code on that hosting site.. thought it was you. N/m.

    As for the topic, Hell no. Dreamweaver 8's design mode is shitty and produces horrible garbage code. Back when I started learning 2 or so years ago, my teacher in HS taught us how to use Notepad and then Dreamweaver.. it did open my eyes at first, but later on it was just holding me back (speed-wise) and I found better programs.

    The program itself is a memory hog and slow as sh!t. At the end of the week I usually have around 300-400 files open in 3-4 instances of VIM and combined it takes up around 80 MB. Opening 3 files in Dreamweaver 8 .. 100 MB. Fuck that.
     
    soulscratch, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  19. soulscratch

    soulscratch Well-Known Member

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    #39
    Sorry to break it to you, but everyone who uses a WYSIWYG really has no idea what they're doing.

    As blueparakia previously stated, real pros hand-code and solve problems by themselves instead of undoing, modifying properties in a shitty interface like Dreamweaver. All those college professor's dont keep up with web shit. If they were successful (or good), they wouldn't be stuck in a school teaching.

    That whole way of doing things via WYSIWYG is the OLDSCHOOL way. If you had actually been keeping up with web dev instead of taking some shitty course where the last thing the professor learned was 5 years ago, you're definitely unaware of what's happening.

    Are you making that xhtml and css3 bullshit up? because no browser even fully supports css1, nor html 4. IE doesn't support xhtml, and chances are you're feeding your xhtml coded page as text/html.
     
    soulscratch, Jan 19, 2008 IP
  20. microtekblue

    microtekblue Well-Known Member

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    #40
    lol ok man good for u...get a life or sumthing.
     
    microtekblue, Jan 19, 2008 IP