DP Writing absolute crap?

For one, a sales letter is not an article. But I'll agree that a sales letter can bring in considerably more than a standard article on the part of both the buyer and the seller. Of course, the writer charging $1000-3000 for a sales letter has a track record of success stretching back years.

I would hazard a guess that he didn't start writing at that level, and I'll also point out that he probably spends a great deal of time revising and tweaking that sales letter for maximum conversions.

In a sense a content or print writer can face the same situation. He (or she) may be paid $1000 for a short article, but the amount of time and research that contribute to that article may greatly affect the actual hourly rate. Or they may make that much easily, but then wait months for the next paid gig, despite countless queries.

I'll admit I'm amused you think no "great" writers hang out on DP. I've made my webmaster rates very public, but then I'm not into bylines or trying to set the world on fire with my amazing skills. I may not even be "great," but then most effective sales letters would be butchered by English teachers, so what does that say about "great?"

I write part-time for some webmasters on DP, I make $50+ an hour, and I'm free to pursue my true passions. I might someday develop other, potentially more profitable areas, but then I might not be having as much fun, and I might not have as much free time - if you count parenting a toddler and infant as free time.

I've already quit very high paying jobs to be a poorly paid teacher simply because I like the non-monetary rewards. Why should I convert to a style of writing I don't enjoy simply because it makes more money? The writing I do now is easy. I run websites; I'm already here. Finding decent customers through DP is simple - and I've yet to have a bad experience.

I happen to know many others around here that are terrific writers, who DO make $1000+ on articles or sales letters, and who will set the world on fire (or already are.)

I can't tell you how many terrific artists and writers were never discovered until after they DIED. Surely you won't argue they weren't great while they lived? If a writer wants to hang around here making a few quick bucks, why does that make him a bad writer? Maybe he just doesn't want to deal with arrogant webmasters who think they understand the motives of others or pompous publishers. Or maybe he's hanging out writing the next Great American Novel and using content writing to pay the bills. He might be making $15 a pop, but he's finding work easily and at least he's still alive to enjoy it.

 

It sounds like you haven't networked with many writers around here, or you would have discovered that we have quite a few great professional writers at this forum.

Your pricing estimates are pretty far off base. Just speaking for myself, I can guarantee you that writers here can earn far more than $50 for an article. The minimum I accept is $200 for exclusive Web rights to an article, with the rare exception being something like a blog post for a long-running deal. If they want print rights too, they pay quite a bit more. Even for non-exclusive Web articles, I charge (and make) $.35 / word. That's because I'm a specialist in my niche area, and I know how to effectively market myself. You also won't find me (or many of the other writers here earning higher rates) advertising to pull in the SEO article type of gigs. We understand how to work the "hidden" market here (the higher paying gigs that aren't directly advertised). In my case, you won't see me advertise for articles, but I do advertise occasionally for press release writing (I'm a marketing / PR specialist, and run a PR firm as my primary work). Most of the higher paying business is drummed up through private referrals and quality posts that lead to exposure and a certain level of respect with potential clients. The good writers know that.

Being a great writer (which I don't claim to be - just a writer who's great at marketing herself) doesn't have anything to do with writing sales letters. Most great writers couldn't write one well, because they're a highly specialized form of copywriting. At the same time, most great copywriters could never sit down and write the next great novel.

So yes, there are great writers here, and more importantly there are some smart writers here who are earning quite a bit more than you're assuming. It's not all cheap, poor-English writing for $1 per 100 words.

 

Amen.

Chalk up another point for quality writing

 

to be honest, nobody here on DP is really a "great writer" because all the great internet writers out there don't even use digital point to advertise, these people are writing 1 page sales copy letters for people for 1,000-3,000$ a piece. If you can do that then you are really a "great writer".


Killafawk, I think there's a vast segment of writers that your statement excludes. There might not be a whole lot of people here in the running for a Pulitzer, but they are terrific at what they do. They definitely don't fall in the garbage writers category either. And in any case, like Jenn pointed out, a "great" writer is in all probability is some one who can market himself better than the rest.

 

I get my copywriters from Craigslist

I have a pretty generous budget though of $50-100 per 1 page (which can be anywhere from 500-750 words). For me it is actually worth it to pay more than how much most other DPers pay because they help generate me good content that I am able to make good sales with. The results I get are pretty good with how little I pay out.

 

Try out some good writers from DP also.You may have excellent content from us writers as well.

 

I certainly don't enjoy 'jumping' people, but unfortunately this will be among the mix of replies to your particular post killafawk.

It was actually kind of weird seeing how I was just looking at the thread about 'judging people off of post count'. I think this is a solid example of why people shouldn't. Not to discredit you as a person in any way, but to show that the amount of posts a person has may not necessarily show experience.

I, personally, am not an article writer, but I cannot say that "the max anyone here who has posted has earned has only been $50" for an article. That's a pretty bold and unfair thing to say, speaking among people you don't know.

The point you made in your first paragraph is actually one of the things that this thread is about. We're not seeing enough of the quality writers giving their true worth a chance. We're actually trying to make that change, so that you can begin to see more writers working for a sensible price. We're frustrated with seeing the .0012/word articles being written and then deemed undesirable by the people who pay for them. We're saying that we want to see some more professional writers being true to themselves and their worth instead of trying to compete against the 'dollar bloggers'. We're trying to get some more quality out there to create a true market for writers here at DP.

It does not mean that there aren't people on these forums who are notably skilled in the art of writing. It means we're trying to give those people a push, some motivation, telling them that we want them to use this marketplace more often. We want quality writers to show up here and expect to do some quality business. People are growing tired, and plenty are already at the breakpoint, of the cheap and poorly written work. We know some of them (quality writers) are here. We want to shine the light on them. For those who are not here, we want to give them reason to come.

 

<rant> I belong to Digital Point and I'm a professional writer. I have three nonfiction commercially published books. I, and my co-author, were paid five figure (without the decimal point) advances to write those books. I've also written and have been paid more than ten times $50 for articles that have been published.

This isn't to brag, but it p!sses me off when someone stereotypes all members of a group. There are many writers at DP that have rates considerably higher than a penny a word. You just don't see us bidding cr@p rates for articles.

Sales letters, like press releases are a different breed of writing. I couldn't write a decent sales letter to save my back end offer. But I can write a mean press release. I don't write press releases for others because the time commitment to know the company, figure out the hook, personalize the hook, write the release and contact the media is too time consuming. I also don't like doing it, except for myself.

Do I write for less than $500 per article? Yes. But it's my choice. I write about topics that are interesting to me, that I want to learn about, or that I'm passionate about. I write about dogs and pets, business, finance, venture capital, business planning, weddings, weight loss, Internet businesses and well, the list goes on.

The rule in any marketplace is 'you get what you pay for.' I never said I couldn't be bought, but I don't come cheap. </rant>

You want to see who I am. Go here or or here

Dee

 

Any writer that charges under $10-$15 is **usually** not worth it.

Why?

Because if they were, they would charge $10-$15 and not $3 or $5.

The mere fact that they are underpricing their services is because they cannot get anyone to pay them any higher.

There are exceptions to this rule, but generally speaking... if the writer undercharges at ridiculously low levels it is NOT because he likes you... or... thinks you deserve a break... or whatever.

It's cus he can't charge higher. (In other words he ain't worth it)

I hired 15 writers in the past 3 months alone, and I 'fired' 13 of them... and all of them charged 10-15-20$+ per article (500+words)

Anyone that thinks they can get great, killer content for $3 or $5 I'm going to wish you luck and please let me know if you find a good writer at that price :]

 

I agree with Jen, most of my work (BESIDES DP) is in the 20 - 35 cents per word range, some clients pay me $1 a word though ---

 

Here's a thought for you. If you take the average typing speed as 50-60 words a minute (lets say 60) which makes 3,600 words an hour then the most you could possibly make per hour working at $0.01/word is $36.

$36 * 40 * 52 = $74,880 / year

That is the most that anyone can make if they managed to have a continuous supply of projects and if they knew everything so didn't have to do research and the documents they were writing automatically emailed themselves to the clients and no content they ever wrote needed revised or rewritten and were never ripped off by any clients who ordered stuff and never paid up.

In the real world, at the very least 50% of the time spent writing articles is carried out researching the subject matters.

$74,880 / 2 = $37,440

Before you've even managed to start writing you actually need to have the projects to work on. For a new writer this must take up at least 1/3 of your time. Lets say 1/10 for writers of 3+ years experience as they will have built up clients who make repeat orders.

$37,440 * 2/3 = Approx $25,000 $37,440 * 9/10 = $33,696

So, the very best salary any writer can make at the rate of $0.01 is $25K for a new writer and $33,696 for an experienced writer.

This figure in itself is highly inflated as it does not take into account holidays, illness, time for accounting, overheads, communications with clients regarding order specifications and it also reflects the very best of results from marketing and being able to research and write the articles. I would suggest the real average figure is around 1/4 of what I've stated above.

At the same time I believe that starting out at this sort of price may be a good way for a new writer to gain some clients before increasing their prices as they gain a bit of a reputation but I personally couldn't conceive writing my whole life at $0.01/word.

Saying this, I believe the number of lines of PHP code I write probably comes out at this figure occasionally... but then, I type at 100 - 120 words a minute lol.

 

To anybody who's hired writers, it would seem quiet obvious that you won't find quality articles for $0.01 a word. What you will find is a lot of students doing the writing - which is fine if your're happy with that. Hats off to any students making spare money this way. But coming to DP and expecting top notch articles for 20$ is aking to having a website coded for 30-50$ - You can bet your a$$ it'll be a scripted repeated verbiage of garbage with little or no truly unique content.

 

hello sir, i have read and very much like article by you. i am like to purchase you work for 100 word per .50 as going rate here.
i and my partner group are prepared to buy up to 1000 word article on cat nutering and will also give generous advance for work. please contact me to when you have done it.

 

^ i wonder what cat nutering is...

 

lol perhaps it's some sort of new dish with nuts?

 

rhino

It seems your grasp of English is much better on your other posts here at DP. Did you think I was going to PM you with an offer to write a 1000 word article for $5? LOL Nice try.

Dee

 

It almost reads that he wants a 1,000-wd article for $0.50 per word or $500. Otherwise, why would he offer an advance? What would an advance on $5 be? $2.50? LOL

Perhaps rhino can post again or PM you to explain what he meant.

 

I just read through most of the seven pages in this post, and I would have to say it sure changed my opinion on freelance writing. I have personally done a bit of freelance article writing in the past, usually going for roughly $1 per 100 words.

I know I am not exactly Shakespeare, but I definitely have a command on the English language, and I consider myself to be a fairly talented writer, so now I am wondering if I should charge more.

The problem is that even at $1 per 100 words, I barely get any customers, even with extensive samples. I guess that's just the main point of this post.

On a side note, if someone could "rate my writing," I would be really appreciative. Just give me a PM (or reply to this post) and I'll PM you a couple samples of my writing so you could determine about how much it is worth.

 

If you're barely getting any customers, and if you're really producing quality work, then the reason is probably that you're not doing a good job of marketing yourself (you may even be targeting the wrong market entirely).

Decide what you want to charge by crunching the numbers properly.

Choose your niche / specialty, making sure it's something you're knowledgeable about, something where there's a demand, and in an area where you can earn your goal rates.

Decide what types of clients can afford to pay your rates. That may very well not be places like DP depending on the rates and specialty.

Put together a solid marketing plan detailing how you plan to reach people in that market, and convince them to buy.

 

Thanks for that article, I think I'm actually going to register on that forum now