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DP Writing absolute crap?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by Taler, Oct 15, 2007.

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  1. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #201
    There are a few other things to consider / think about:
    SEMrush
    1. While I happily admit that there are non-native English writers who are incredible, the vast majority are far from it (writing in English that is; they may be excellent writers in their native language). It may not be a pleasant thought to the few who write well in the language as compared to the whole, but it's a harsh reality that they have to overcome in their marketing.

    2. It's also very true that a lot of native English speakers couldn't write well in the language to save their lives. At the same time, they're not all out there claiming to be "writers." Overall, there's a larger percentage of so-called "professional" writers who are non-native English speakers that simply can't cut it as opposed to the percentage of native English writers claiming to be professional (basing that on my experience and observations). The buyer certainly does need to do their research either way though.

    3. There's an issue some non-native English writers don't consider from the buyer's perspective, which makes it easy to say that location shouldn't matter. You're forgetting that there are legal issues if a writer in another country doesn't deliver, provides poor quality or plagiarized work, etc. If a buyer is in the US, they may not be protected against such things if they outsource to a writer in another country, depending on the location. So that's another issue non-native English writers need to find a way to overcome (strong client referrals and a great portfolio for instance) if they want to compete for those buyers, and it's another issues that buyers have to take into consideration.

    You proved a point I tried to make earlier... that many buyers going for cheaper content honestly don't realize the poor quality they're getting. In this case, you thought you were getting "no spelling/[grammatical] errors," which isn't the case. I viewed several articles on the sites in your sig, and found spelling and/or grammatical errors in each of them. Yes, they did read better than a lot of the cheap crap articles floating around, but they're far from something I'd consider professional. The writer obviously did a lousy job proofreading their work for a client, and you as the client didn't take the time to thoroughly check before publishing (or having an editor do it for you).



    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Nov 2, 2007 IP
    SEMrush
  2. gauharjk

    gauharjk Well-Known Member

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    #202
    I agree absolutely. There should be a balance between the price a buyer is ready to pay and the quality he/she expects. If you wan better writers, you have to pay more.
     
    gauharjk, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  3. monty2002

    monty2002 Well-Known Member

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    #203
    Just to let everyone know, I got grey repped today from someone for one of my posts on this thread. His comment:

    "He is being very arrogant, thinks he is superior than others. That is not called for. I disapprove this comment from monty. He should learn to respect others, and give up his arrogance..."

    Why is he speaking in the second person? Clearly he doesn't have a basic graspe of english and therefore unfortunately I AM superior to him. I don't think I have shown arrogance I have simply said what a lot of people are thinking without caring what all the useless writers think...
     
    monty2002, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  4. OnLine_Market_man

    OnLine_Market_man Guest

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    #204
    DO NOT pay people by the word. They will purposely write garbage and stretch out the document longer than it should be.

    Just my two cents.
     
    OnLine_Market_man, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  5. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #205
    You obviously haven't worked with many professional writers, or you would know that simply isn't the case (it's also how a larger percentage of professional publications pay their writers). It's your job to know crap from quality. If they submit garbage, you don't accept it, and you tell them to revise it. You pay per word on the final, edited, accepted piece for publication.

    @Monty2002,

    I just took a look at your posts in this thread and definitely didn't see anything arrogant. So unless I missed something.... It sounds like the commenter thought he was reporting you or leaving something public like iTrader. Either way, you're right... your English writing is far superior to that individual's. Of course theirs may be far superior in their own native tongue, which is something you had already admitted in the thread (and which they'd have known if they'd have read the discussion before making a judgment call).
     
    jhmattern, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  6. mr-net

    mr-net Peon

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    #206
    There are great writers out there
     
    mr-net, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  7. DeniseJ

    DeniseJ Live, Laugh, Love

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    #207
    Would you even recognize garbage when it came to you?

    Most professional publications pay per word. Every client I have worked with in the past has paid per word - I rarely, if ever, accept an hourly wage for my work.

    As Jenn mentioned, it's YOUR responsibility to differentiate from garbage and quality content. The way you choose to pay your writers has nothing to do with their ability to write.
     
    DeniseJ, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  8. sandalwood

    sandalwood Guest

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    #208
    I can't speak for anyone else but I have been paid very well by a few buyers on this site and I've only been a member for a couple of months. Look at my sig line and you'll be taken to my bio page.

    I will write an article for $5 but it has to be for a paying client with whom I have a relationship. That to me is only fair. If the person is willing to match my normal rates, I'm willing to give that person an inexpensive article. I also have written articles for free for these same clients. That too also seems only fair.

    Anyone who wants to write for the big bucks should be doing it for print magazines. There are a number of sites that give you the needed info so you can query the mags of your choice.

    You can also get syndicated and have a steady monthly check. That takes a bit of a hustle but it is possible.

    Anyway, thought I'd throw in my 2 cents and tell you I think DP is a pretty darned good paying site overall. I also think a lot of the members are easy to work with and are open minded on their requirements. No flattery intended, just relaying my experience to date.

    And, like almost every other forum there are complete anus blossoms who expect 800 words for a dollar. You'll find these idiots anywhere you visit. So be it, that's the nature of the beast.

    Tom:)

     
    sandalwood, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  9. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #209
    Can you explain what you mean by "fair?" I'm not sure how accepting a very low rate, or free, project is fair to you as a writer unless you're getting something more valuable to you out of the deal. If it's just that they've paid you in the past, offering a discount isn't a bad thing... offering too much of one won't do you much good in business in the long run.

    That's pretty old school rationale. ;) There are actually plenty of online publications that pay as much as magazines (with less lead time required, quicker turnaround and payments, etc.). Most writers just don't know how to find them or properly query them. Remember, all of those big print publications (or most at least) now have online components, and they often want unique information there - they pay quite well.

    There are definitely some gems here who do really value writers, and pay accordingly. They're not always easy find, and rarely advertise publicly, but you're right; they do exist. :)
     
    jhmattern, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  10. internetauthor

    internetauthor Peon

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    #210
    LOL - If you are dealing with someone unreputable, I'm sure you are exactly right. But most writers are willing and able to offer a project quote if you are unsure about paying by the word.

    Every quality writer I know avoids fluff in articles - the extra dollar or two isn't worth sounding like a fool, plus the quality of the work itself would suffer. I've been known to go up to 900 words on a "500-wd" article simply because I wasn't finished yet and the topic wasn't covered adequately according to my own standards.

    As I had agreed to a project rate upfront with the client I'm thinking of, I certainly didn't make him pay for my preferred length. He's a regular client, and I happened to love the topic at hand (pregnancy), so there was no loss for either party. This was not an isolated event. :) It's just one more reason it's good to find someone who knows her niche and enjoys the topic - they just have more in depth material to offer!

    Quite a few writers, including myself, quote by the word to give potential clients an idea of how much an article would cost. Then, I, and most other writers, are happy to set up a project rate based on your specific needs and the writer's rate.

    Other times, a word rate is simpler for reoccurring work. A client can shoot over an email asking for a quick blurb or revision of website content and all the formalities can often be avoided. (These would be regular clients, obviously.)
     
    internetauthor, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  11. sandalwood

    sandalwood Guest

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    #211
    Hi jh,

    I'm a member of your forum as well and think you run a pretty good ship over there. Just thought I'd mention it. By "fair" I mean if I have a client who has been on the up and up with me and wants an article that is up to 500 words in length that is outside the project, I'll do it for him/her for $5 because I believe it is the right thing to do. In no way am I telling other writers how to conduct their business or what to charge. At the tender age of 62 I've learned that fair is in the eye of the beholder and beholdee. If both parties think it is fair, it is fair. I accept your point about the business but I look at it differently since I believe if I help you get what you want, you'll help me get what I want. I no longer have to solicit for clients. My email is full of repeat requests because I must have provided something of value in our past relationships. Again, just my experience.


    Again, only my 2¢ and I certainly hope everyone who participates in this open marketplace receives the compensation they believe they deserve for their labor. If they are satisfied with their rate, so am I. Wishing all a ton of success.

    Tom:)
     
    sandalwood, Nov 2, 2007 IP
    SEOLinker likes this.
  12. DiscussNow

    DiscussNow Peon

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    #212
    While I totally agree that .01$ is complete crap for any respectable article, we all must keep in mind that people shouldn't charge more than .01$ if it's complete crap that they are writing :p
     
    DiscussNow, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  13. indyeah

    indyeah Well-Known Member

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    #213
    I disagree with you mate :). "Quality is in no ways dependent on the charge", in my opinion even a novice can produce something as spectacular as a so called "proffesional".It's all about the faith you have in the writer.

    If you are confident of producing good articles :) probably you wont even think about working in pennies and ohh yea trust me if you do good you do "get good".

    No one better then me can answer this :). Let me introduce myself to you,I am a canadian born dude who has been living in india for like way too long now. Done all my education from here and yet I never found anyone who gave me a "negative" in Article writing.
    Probably you would like to glance through my ITraders and see the "positive" additions.

    "Knowing French" and "writing it down" are 2 different things :). I know zillions of indians and foriegners who can write well. How can they do that? - Well, for the simple fact that they learn English right from the Pre Schools to the Highest Graduation Degree.
    I think you prolly got the idea here mate

    Cheers
     
    indyeah, Nov 2, 2007 IP
  14. monty2002

    monty2002 Well-Known Member

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    #214
    I still stand by my arguments, there may be exceptions, but the majority of the stuff I have said applies to the majority of people....
     
    monty2002, Nov 3, 2007 IP
  15. indyeah

    indyeah Well-Known Member

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    #215
    Well :) everyone has his opinion. Dont you think most of the article seeker's here are satisfied with a low offered price? and they keep rolling the same price over and over again!! prolly they want things cheap and in other words you can say they (the seeker's) "influence the charge's here in DP".

    And ohh yea, everyone wants to be the "Brown nose" here mate ;) ....
     
    indyeah, Nov 3, 2007 IP
  16. The Emirates Gallastico

    The Emirates Gallastico Banned

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    #216
    All I can say is that thanks to this thread I earn a lot more money from writing these days. I've raised my prices fivefold to $0.05 a word, however while demand has decreased, it has not decreased five times as much :)
     
  17. DiscussNow

    DiscussNow Peon

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    #217
    I havent started chring that high yet, although I feel myself slowly increasing my rate per word as the overall quality of my articles gradually improve.
     
    DiscussNow, Nov 3, 2007 IP
  18. sandalwood

    sandalwood Guest

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    #218
    I had a friend who fixed lawn mowers for a living. He always made people leave them and come back the next day. He did that because he made the mistake of fixing one in five minutes while the customer waited. He charged his normal rate and the customer was furious fully expecting to pay only a minimal price. My buddy looked him in the eye and said, "sir, you didn't pay me for the mechanicing I did, you paid me for my knowledge". To the author of this post who resents paying for a service he desperately needs, "sir, you aren't paying for my time, you're paying for my ability to do what needs to be done. If the job is that important, do it yourself and quit whining." This guy wants someone else to do his work but is crying that he won't be able to justify spending money for work his company is expecting HIM to do. How about that for a double edge sword. It sounds like he needs to delegate some of his load to others in the company and quit whining and complete the other jobs his company is paying him to do.

    Geesh, the buyer wants quality AND quantity but only wants to pay crap prices. I would bet his company could lower the $20+ an hour they pay him by hiring a fresh out of high school graduate for $10 an hour. That would certainly solve the resentment issue. And save the company $400 a week.

    Just my 2¢ :)

    Tom:)

    [I currently earn about $20 odds an hour. Now, I'm in no way implying that people aren't worth that or that I should be getting paid more (well, actually I should :D) however for something that I can do myself I resent paying somebody 5x as much as I earn. I know that the money isn't coming from my own pocket but for the 70 (going up to 250 or so) videos that I need reviewed I'll have a hard time justifying spending $2500 on something my company believe they're paying me for doing.

    [/QUOTE]
     
    sandalwood, Nov 3, 2007 IP
  19. J8Diamonds

    J8Diamonds Active Member

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    #219
    Good point.

    I don't desperately need the service. It would be nice to have a completed site while I continue working on what else needs to be done. I will do it myself and indeed have started to.

    There's no one else in the company to delegate the task to, I'm almost solely in charge of content for the sites we have. The point here was about hiring freelancers and my emploters would not expect me to spend a months wages on a week's worth of work.

    I'm not here to whine about how much responsibility I have without the authority to back it up, I gave you an explanation of why I would come to DP to try and find a writer and why I would either hire a $1/100 word guy or at least not pay $2,500 for a week's work. I also made it clear a few times that my circumstance was slightly different in so much that anybody with eyes and a mastery of English could probably write a show synopsis following the guidelines given.

    As I mentioned I never quoted any prices when I made my post asking for a writer, I waited for samples and pricing and would weigh quality vs. cost. Additionally I also gave reasons why I wouldn't expect to pay as high as the top writers here charge, though have since taken on board reasoning from jhmattern with explaining how writers time is broken down as well as listened to other points of view.

    As I also mentioned, I'm underpaid, I highly doubt they could hire a high school kid that could do the same job (not that I'm here to justify my job to you). It's got nothing to do with the prices I'm willing to pay, it's to do with the budget at my disposal and assuming I'm in a similar position to others, their budget also. For the money I quoted I could probably hire an English post-grad to temp for a week and get a top notch job. Heck, I could probably find at least a few students who would do it for free just to add to their CV when they left Uni who would be on an equal footing to most of the quality writers here for this task.

    Please feel free to respond if I've misinterpreted anything you've said and despite your claims that I 'whine', I don't want to get into an argument. A debate is fine though.
     
    J8Diamonds, Nov 3, 2007 IP
  20. AdJumpCM

    AdJumpCM Guest

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    #220
    I'll write for $0.05 per word, no exceptions. I guarantee that my writing is far superior to anything found on DP. But when people lowball me, wanting me to write for $0.01 or less, yes, you get garbage. That's just how it is. This industry is truly "you get what you pay for".
     
    AdJumpCM, Nov 7, 2007 IP
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