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Does anyone know which script is this site using ?

Discussion in 'Programming' started by bwsl, May 26, 2020.

  1. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #21
    None of these web sites should take 5 minutes to load on a highend Mac with a high speed connection. Sorry that is not the typical case.
    SEMrush
     
    NetStar, Aug 2, 2020 IP
    SEMrush
  2. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #22
    You can add that to the list. However, @deathshadow is #2. As seen in his response.


    Sure. However, a business owner does not care and shouldn't care about over complicating development to save nano-seconds.
     
    NetStar, Aug 2, 2020 IP
  3. mmerlinn

    mmerlinn Prominent Member

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    #23
    Go re-read my post. There is NOTHING in that post about OS9 since FF will not run on any OS9 machine. My complaint in THAT post was about FF69, which I did not realize was a decade and half old browser. I thought it was a current 2020 browser when I installed it a few months ago. NO Firefox will run on OS9, so even though I STILL use OS9, I CANNOT access the internet using it.

    FF69 is SLOWER than molasses. cutcodedown.com on it takes OVER ONE MINUTE to load EACH page. Using FF3 takes UNDER TWO SECONDS to load the same EXACT page on the SAME EXACT connection. Unfortunately, I cannot use FF3 most of the time, so I am stuck with a SLOW browser that I HATE in many many ways. I probably should trash FF and find a better browser.
     
    mmerlinn, Aug 2, 2020 IP
  4. mmerlinn

    mmerlinn Prominent Member

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    #24
    Might not be the typical case, but that is what I am dealing with.

    When a site will load dozens of magnitudes faster on a 20 year old browser than on a modern browser, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Since most sites now won't even work with older browsers there is no way I can benchmark them beyond knowing that I feel like I am back in the 300 baud modem days.
     
    mmerlinn, Aug 2, 2020 IP
  5. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #25
    My bad, usually you're talking about old hardware and old OS.

    If FF3 is fast but FF60+ is slow, I'd say the problem is either outdated hardware that doesn't properly support modern features, or an outdated OS that has the same woe.

    That or the fact that FF3 is "fast" is the fact that sites viewed in it would be crippled in appearance and functionality EXACTLY like they would be in IE8/earlier. Something your hardware or OS is too old or too crippled to support.

    Since if Chrome and FF latest can both run just fine on win 7 on my old MSI 123 nettop, I can't imagine how little hardware you're on for this to even be an issue. What are you running, 512 megs of RAM off USB 1.0 flash? A pre SSE CPU?

    If my site is taking almost a minute in FF latest but not in the ancient unstable unreliable 3.x (where that infamous "It's not a memory leak" was still a thing) there's something seriously wrong with your hardware config.

    Honestly I thought you were talking FF 6.9 not 69, since nobody on FF 8/newer should be on anything LESS than 76 due to update push. in fact MOST people should be on FF 79 by now.

    -- edit -- my bad, FF 79 not 78. Just checked.
     
    deathshadow, Aug 2, 2020 IP
  6. mmerlinn

    mmerlinn Prominent Member

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    #26
    @deathshadow, I will need to get back to you since I don't have all of the answers at my fingertips.

    What I do know right now is that FF3.6.28 is running on a G4 with Leopard OSX. FF69 is running on a later Mac, but I cannot get the details until later. They are both connected to the same ISP address via the same high speed connection, so that eliminates any external connection issues.

    Your site looks and acts the same in both browsers. Nothing crippled about it. Ditto for my site. So using those examples for comparison purposes should eliminate a "crippling" issue. Most sites are either crippled in FF3 or won't load at all, so I would never use them to compare FF3/FF69 usability. When possible I use FF3, but for crippled and non-loading sites I am stuck with slow FF69. Fortunately, DP still works fine with FF3.

    I just checked the size of Mac FF3 and FF69. Talk about code bloat!!! FF3.6.28 is 18Mb while FF69 is 67Mb! FF69 uses 3.72 times more code than FF3.6.28 does to do the same job. Like you always say, code bloat makes EVERYTHING slower. And FF79 is even WORSE at 71Mb. That may not be the whole problem, but it IS a contributing factor.

    Wow, I just realized that I am still using FF3.6.16 on this WinXP machine. I thought I had updated it to FF3.6.28 years ago. Guess I should do something about that when I have time to fix anything that breaks when I update.
     
    mmerlinn, Aug 2, 2020 IP
  7. ILHWEJD20

    ILHWEJD20 Peon

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    #27
    People tend to think these are sloppy sites but the code isn't written that way.
     
    ILHWEJD20, Sep 25, 2020 IP
  8. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #28
    Most people here have no idea what a React, Angular, or Vue website is or how it's generated.
     
    NetStar, Sep 25, 2020 IP
  9. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #29
    Entirely true. They only know the SYMPTOMS of bad code, such as massive bloat making it take too long to load, a general lack of semantics or logical document structure making it useless for non-screen users, poor rankings on search, etc, etc, etc.

    They just lack the knowledge to articulate it, or identify the source of the problem... and being the web in MOST cases that just means they'll say "Screw it' and go to some other website that doesn't have these problems.

    Problems easily identified by anyone competent enough to have any business making websites... and again problems that can land you in court.
     
    deathshadow, Sep 25, 2020 IP
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  10. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #30
    No. Sorry man...you're not as good as you think you are. Your web sites clearly show that. They look 20 years old and based on your posts you are completely clueless about web development in 2020. You can spew garbage all you want here on DP but on a real Developers forum they probably will not take the "PHP Programmer" advocating to write everything yourself seriously......... It's funny when you post. It's unfortunate when people take your advice.
     
    NetStar, Sep 26, 2020 IP
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  11. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #31
    Which again makes me think you weren't online 20 years ago. That or you think that flat+, material design, bootstrap and tailwind's default examples, and dozens of other "modern" design models also look 20 years out of date... in which case you know not the first damned thing about design!

    And NOT that the techniques I advocate limit said designs and choices; as I proved when I showed what crap various bootcrap examples are, something anyone qualified to use HTML or CSS could create in about the same time it takes to copy and understand the bootcrap version!

    https://cutcodedown.com/for_others/nocrap/checkout/checkout.html
    https://cutcodedown.com/for_others/medium_articles/frameworks/album_4.5/album.html

    Fixing all the problems without compromising the design or compatibility. But things like facts, standards, and specifications apparently mean nothing to you, what with your "let's just rip off everyone" attitude.

    But sure, this looks 20 years out of date, of course it does:
    https://conceal.network

    Whilst it has a lot of things I advised them not to do -- like that stupid loading animation -- if you view source you can tell who's handiwork that is. The HTML, CSS, and about half the scripting having my fingerprints -- and maybe even some DNA -- all over it.

    I'm sure they'd love to hear your opinion over how outdated it looks... NOT!

    What, you mean like a den of scam artist dirtbags, suck-ups, and sycophants like SitePoint?

    Though it's funny your laser focus on "PHP Programmer" and how you seem to be trying to use that as an insult or shoe-horn me into being "just that". Child, I had RCA 1802 machine language in orbit before most of the members of this forum were even born. I'm a full stack developer fluent in far more than just PHP. Hell, PHP is probably one of the most recent languages I've learned given I was likely writing Ada and DiBol professionally whilst you were still suckling at your mothers teat.

    Or are you still butthurt over the ONLY time you ever posted code -- some garbage pagination what... six or seven years ago? -- that I dissected it, and then you went on to make wild claims that only further showed your utter ignorance of competent development? (like a ->num_rows on a COUNT(*) that would only ever return 1 despite your nonsensical claims to the contrary since count only returns 1 row if it's the only value)

    Of course that brings us to the simple fact you've never shown anything "real" that you've done, or presented a single rational fact that supports any of your counterpoints. I've shown you mine, let's see yours!

    But of course, like most people who make up lame excuses and talk out their arses on this topic, you have nothing to show and have apparently never done anything of merit. Hence why you just keep parroting the same "wah wah, is not" without ANY supporting facts, evidence or work. THEN you have the unmitigated gall to criticize other people's work.

    PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Show us something, ANYTHING. Instead of wading into threads with unsupported, unfounded, nonsensical claims devoid of truth, sanity, or evidence. FFS you're starting to sound like the orange cheeto-fingered half-tweet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
    deathshadow, Sep 26, 2020 IP
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  12. JEET

    JEET Notable Member

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    #32
    @NetStar
    Its not unfortunate when people take advice from @deathshadow
    Its unfortunate when people do not listen to what he is saying.
    Also,
    he has command over more coding languages than you and I can ever learn.

    By the way, people who say use a third party framework for adding/implementing something which needs just 20 lines of code, those are not "real developers" or "developers forums"

    Its like that Apache file class for JAVA.
    It takes 4 lines of code to append to a file using core JAVA,
    but those so called "real developers" give 2 line example using Apache class...
    A third party class which has to be loaded each time your JAVA code runs.

    Using a third party system to do something which you yourself cannot do, I understand that.
    But knowing the language yourself, and still depending on some third party system, just so you have to type 2 less lines, I don't get it...
    That third party system is using the same methods and functions which you would have used if you wrote the code in core language,
    processing is being done by the same function and language,
    then why the overhead of a bulky framework?

    People use Jquery. Its a larger than 100kb file.
    And what do they replace using JQuery?

    var str= document.getElementById("myInput").value;
    is replaced by
    var str = $("#myInput"). val();

    And to do this, they send a 100kb library to client browser every page load...
    Whats the point?
     
    JEET, Sep 27, 2020 IP
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  13. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #33
    I just looked at your web sites:

    • https://cutcodedown.com/ - Pure utter crap. Looks like an old "PHP Nuke" generated web site from 20 years ago. Horrible use of white space. Is this the freaking model site you post??????????
    • https://deathshadow.com/ - This site you go on some stupid rant about people complaining about your website looking old then purposely attempt to make it look even older yet you use the same layout as your "modern" website cutcodedown.com lol.
    • https://elementalsjs.com/ - The SAME layout as above. Except you have tab nav links from the old 20 year old Amazon web site. *Cringe*
    • https://ewiusb.com/ - Same damn layout again. Except you added some more graphics straight from the PHP Nuke web site 20 years ago.

    These AREN'T good examples of User Interfaces and web design trends of 2020. These are PURELY simple basic web sites. These do NOT provide good user experiences. These are utter crap. Unfortunately, people take your advice without actually knowing what YOU think is a good web site. It's VERY unfortunate.

    You are so stubborn, thick headed and socially awkward that you will assert YOUR "best practices" as "the way" and completely misguide DOZENS of people here.

    If people want BASIC boring web sites they should take design advice from deathshadow. If they want HORRIBLE out dated programming advice and use baby old dated languages like PHP they should take deathshadows cringe advice and waste their time rewriting unnecessary code to be "faster" on a language that is dreadfully slow in 2020.

    Sorry "brah" you aren't as good as you attempt people to believe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
    NetStar, Sep 27, 2020 IP
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  14. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #34
    A programmer does not use a library because they can't write it themselves. They use a library because it has already been written and tested. This makes YOU productive by not spending time to reinvent something that already exists to achieve the exact same result. Not because you can't write it yourself. Duh.

    For instance, If you need OAuth capability in your app to allow for the login from FaceBook, Google, Instagram etc. you could 1. spend hours and hours writing the code to end up with code that needs to be tested, debugged, rewritten etc. -OR- you can use a library that already exists.

    A GOOD programmer will NOT be intimidated to use code written by another person. A BAD programmer (@deathshadow) feels they are the best at writing code and no one can write code better. They will often rewrite the exact line of code just to say they wrote it. Those people give HORRIBLE advice and often FORCE it on others until they are misguided. Sounds familiar here right?

    The fact that you are referencing JQuery in 2020 shows that your skills haven't evolved. Who uses JQuery in 2020? Wtf....

    You're also talking about Apache. It's 2020. It's a VERY dated and SLOW unproductive approach to use the "conventional" Apache model of serving pages from a dated PHP application... Again... 2020 people. Time to update your skills.

    Since we are on the jquery subject (blast from the past) let me help you understand why Jquery was born. It wasn't JUST to save keystrokes.. It was to standardize how we write JavaScript at a time in the past where every browser required a different lick of code to accomplish the same task. Jquery was born to assist with the huge compatibility problem we had a decade ago. Plus it allowed for writing less code. But this is 2020. Again...update your skills.

    You mean 85kb minified and 29kb gzipped? If that's your data concern in 2020 you have been misguided. Sorry...
     
    NetStar, Sep 27, 2020 IP
  15. Saputnik

    Saputnik Active Member

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    #35
    I noticed long time ago that he's a perfect example of Dunning-Kruger bias.

    His coding knowledge is not questionable. But deployment of that code and attitude towards fellow programmers are just disgusting.
     
    Saputnik, Sep 27, 2020 IP
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  16. JEET

    JEET Notable Member

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    #36
    @NetStar
    you wrote,
    You're also talking about Apache. It's 2020. It's a VERY dated and SLOW unproductive approach to use the "conventional" Apache model of serving pages from a dated PHP application... Again... 2020 people. Time to update your skills.

    Read my comment again. I was not talking about Apache server.
    I was talking about Apache File JAVA library, used in JAVA codes.
    You don't even know what that is or where its used, and you are lecturing about "updating skills..."

    About JQuery, every wordpress website, open any, 99% of those have that JQuery code.

    I understand using a library for implementing a facebook login, that is understandable.
    Its a small library called once when the code is actually needed.
    That is not loaded on every page. Used only once when the button is clicked, on one page.
    This post is not about that.

    This post is about using frameworks and libraries which are used on every page load.
    What is the point of loading a 100kb library, when all you need is 5 lines of code?
    The library will also use the core language itself, but is loading 100kb of other things which will never be used.
    What is the point?

    By the way, why don't you show one of your "modern looking" projects to @deathshadow
    Let him check it for accessibility.
    You fail accessibility, you are open for a law suit. Its only a matter of time.
    Let him check your project for accessibility...
     
    JEET, Sep 27, 2020 IP
  17. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #37
    This is true. I believe @deathshadow can program. No question. I do NOT believe he is a proficient programmer though. There's too much "code pride" and stubborn selfish delusional "I need to do it all on my own" mentality to be a proficient programmer. There's no way in hell you should EVER waste your time (or your companies time) spending countless hours to rewrite well tested libraries JUST so you can feel "proud" to say "I wrote it!!".

    I know the personality type all too well. They sit in the back of the meetings ridiculing all ideas while everyone with modern day skills roll their eyes. They think they know best and all of their ideas turn a 1 month project in to 6 months. They will ridicule design frameworks like bootstrap and attempt to convince everyone it's easier to not use it. Then the CTO watches his employees spend months creating UI components that are untested and don't align with one another while the competitors bring their product to market for profitability. These personalities will convince you to spend countless hours saving microseconds on projects by avoiding Frameworks with well tested patterns to "roll your own". The Result: The same damn functionality of a framework but you have successfully saved unnoticeable microseconds on a PHP script that is already SLOW as SHIT and forces your company in to an optimization stage pre-maturely.
     
    NetStar, Sep 27, 2020 IP
  18. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #38
    It is?
    Angular, Vue and React load once. And the purpose of using them is to avoid loading libraries and unnecessary content with each page load. As it turned out most people here actually thought the outputted code from these tools were written.

    This is very valid. You would NOT use a framework if the code required is only 5 lines. That's one of those things people say to make a point yet it is NOT a real world point. No one uses frameworks with an overhead if they can accomplish the same result in 5 lines of code. That's just not true.

    I do not mean anything sly by this... But do you understand the purpose of using Vue, Angular or React for a "Single Page Application"?
    To create such an app you would either have to "roll your own" system which is a project in its self or use an existing tool kit. You would not build your own as it would be VERY problematic and time consuming. The result would be damn near identical to one of those systems. OR you could bootstrap a bunch of JS libraries together which would be a mess and open yourself up for scalability challenges later.

    You can't say I fail accessibility. You don't know my projects. I can tell you this...

    I have MANY old out dated web sites just like deathshadows. I can identify they are utter crap just like his. I would NEVER recommend someone to build web sites like those old sites. I would NEVER recommend someone to build web sites like I use to. Why? Because it is 2020 and we have evolved.

    I also have current projects that are in fact up to date that I make money on. Why would I care to show that to you or deathshadow? The truth is... I just don't care if someone says "omg IE 9 doesn't support VueJS.. hahah weakkkk". That doesn't stop me from making money or having success. Accessibility is defined VERY differently depending on who you ask. For one, it means accessibility to your target audience. For another it could mean accessibility to a 15 year old browser. Deathshadow defines it as building a web site that focuses on the minority of your traffic on ie5 instead of focusing on the user experience of the majority of your traffic (my view). Again...I just don't care what you think is an accessibility problem. I care about money generated from my projects. Not your opinion. And I truly don't mean that in a disrespectful way.
     
    NetStar, Sep 27, 2020 IP
  19. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #39
    As usual, @NetStar skips right past the client site example, makes dipshit claims about how "old" my sites look when they follow and are inspired by modern concepts like material design and flat+, and continues to side-step showing ANYTHING to prove he's qualified to make a single blasted statement. I provided an example of what I can do for clients. Walked right past it, didn't ya f***wit?

    No supporting evidence, nothing remotely based in fact, complete ignorance of the most basic aspects of web development, and it also seems a general inability to comprehend a single blasted thing anyone says.

    Such as magically transforming "check for accessibility, you fail accessibility you are open for a lawsuit" into being accused of not being accessible. The "if" is implied but dipshit is too mother***ing stupid to comprehend simple English.

    Can't show work, avoids actual questions, ignores examples, ignores specifications and guidelines, and in general does nothing more than flap his ignorant f***wit arse-cheeks in the wind.

    And again, if you think my sites look like something from the '90's, you clearly weren't online in the '90's and must really hate Google's Material Design, the UI on most Android phones, and every aspect of flat / flat + / flat 2.0 design. Let me guess, raging boner for the outdatded skeuomorphic style? No, that would involve you knowing what skeuomorphic means. Or "flat design"... or a passing familiarity with material design.

    Exactly the type of asshat I typically get fired when I go into broken sites as an accessibility consultant. The sleazy dirtbag shits with the endless lame excuses for buggy, broken, ignorant practices that F*** client after client. If he's "making money" it's probably because he's ripping people off like all the other scam artists out there!
     
    deathshadow, Sep 27, 2020 IP
  20. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #40
    Unless of course said library makes you write MORE code of your own than you'd have without it, or adds massive processing overhead adding seconds to the page load time dragging performance down to where even on broadband the page behaves like you're on dialup, and uses bad practices that violate accessibility norms.

    And sadly, most people who use libraries and frameworks do so because they can't write it themselves. PAINFULLY true when it comes to front-end frameworks since even the people who CREATED them didn't know enough about HTML or CSS to be writing code for others in the first place.

    Such as jQuery, where most everything I've ever seen done with it falls into one of three categories:

    1) Things that would be less code without jQuery, NOT counting the size of jQuery against it.

    2) Things HTML and CSS can do without scripting in the first place

    3) Things that have zero damned business on a website if you give a damn about usability and accessibility.

    Correct, but they will also take the time to make sure what they're blindly grabbing and slopping into a page isn't a train wreck disaster that pisses on load times, makes things harder to maintain, or runs the risk of alienating large swaths of the potential user-base.

    That's not what it's about at all. It's about fixing things so that people don't end up with slow loading pages that tell a great number of people visiting the resulting sites to go f*** themselves. And that's what most of the bullshit you're defending does. It tells a lot of users to bend over! That's been my bread and butter for a decade now, fixing sites these off the shelf answers have screwed. ALL the crap you're defending is what screws over site after site, client after client, company after company. And it's thanks to sleaze like you making up all these lame excuses that they end up either tanking in their first year wondering what when wrong, or if they have the pockets to afford these money pits end up in court.

    Don't believe me? Ask Domino's. Or Beyonce. Or any of the hundreds of companies, public utilities, medical facilities, -- and now thanks to the Supreme Court refusing to hear the Domino's case -- retail sites who have been dragged through the legal system. Again another data point you'll just flat out ignore.

    Wordpress, Bootstrap, Xenforo, vBulletin, SMF (latest beta, they're adding it)... the only places you generally won't find it are people using node.js on the back end where it disagrees with their equally junk React/Vue/Angular stuff.

    And again, comprehension, TRY IT!!! She was talking about an Apache Project Java system, NOT Apache server you ignorant twaddle. There's more to the Apache organization than just Apache Server.

    Much less Apache is still the default on most hosting plans with only people on dedicated using anything else, with nginf being a close second.

    So excellent job talking out your arse. AGAIN. You know shit about shit, and the more you run your mouth the more apparent how little you know about anything.

    Sure as hell wasn't, as evident by how for any practical task that isn't card-stacked, it usually results in writing more code than needed (again, not counting the size of the framework against the total) or doing things that were none of scripting's business.

    Which was more fiction than fact by the time it caught on.

    You've never once had to deal with the results from YSLOW, PingDom Tools, PageSpeed, or Lighthouse, have you? Again, more proof how you know jack about shit.

    Particularly when you get into clients who are focusing on FP/FCP(FMP)LCP/DCL where the extra code's parse time, pack time, transfer time, extra handshake, all add up to a negative impact. Something I'd not be shocked if you had no clue what I'm talking about.

    Since again you know jack shit on the topic, but still insist on running your mouth.
     
    deathshadow, Sep 27, 2020 IP