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Do You Still Have Hope In The Content Section Here At DP?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by coreygeer, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #21
    It's the same a lot of places that you go. The difference is, DP was slightly different from my experience. The first time I came here, it was overwhelming with how many jobs were posted every day.
    SEMrush
    Places like Elance, oDesk and other mill sites were always a crap shoot. I never had any lucky on there, because I never set myself as low as those people would. The only way to get work on Elance is to either sell your soul for $1/hourly or hope a client understands what kind of incoherent crap they'll get with the lowest price.

    There is one thing I see on Digital Point that I don't see anywhere else: "Send me samples".

    I do not understand the fascination with the word 'samples'. Most people never even check to see where they're from, so they can just copy them from any site they want. Not only that, but seeing samples of someone's writing doesn't showcase anything. The only way you'll ever see how someone writes is to actually hire them or look at their website.

    I've never had a high paying client who asked me: "Can you send samples?"

    They usually ask for a portfolio or a resume. After that, we have a lengthy e-mail or Skype discussion and scope out the job details. When I get asked for samples, I usually just send a zip or rar file of about 30 or so articles I have permission to share. They're already posted and indexed, so the clients could care less.

    I'm not sure if people were putting my content on niche sites or what they were doing with it. Most people never tell you what they do with your content. Today, most the people I see getting work done here are doing it for their blogs. People have definitely moved on from the AdSense niche sites, but they just moved onto blogs instead.
     
    coreygeer, Mar 4, 2014 IP
    SEMrush
  2. forgetmenot

    forgetmenot Well-Known Member

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    #22
    I have been away from DP for years (I think 2005/2006). The population has grow so much
    and we cannot expect the quality of visitors/members to remain equally high. I believed there
    are still good writers and good clients, the percentage might be lower but the absolute number
    should be similar.

    That said, the reason why I am back to DP is that I need content for my new biz. Will need
    a variety of writing - Website About Us, Invitation Letter/Sales Copy, Press Release and Teaser, etc.
    Any recommendation of good writers will be appreciated. I might not be able to pay top rate,
    but I definitely wont request 50-cents articles.
     
    forgetmenot, Mar 4, 2014 IP
  3. tom11011

    tom11011 Well-Known Member

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    #23
    If I were to ask you for samples, I would expect that you would reply with links to blog posts or similar.
     
    tom11011, Mar 4, 2014 IP
  4. averyz

    averyz Well-Known Member

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    #24
    I think it is just a reflection of the quality of the market here.

    Normally higher end writers have websites blogs and author accts, they say check out my work at the Huffinton post and my personal blog.

    Most times at DP people have no website, no author accts and no post count. Most times they are usually hoping to get a big order and run off with the money that was sent to some other fools paypal acct. This way they do not have to invest in a post count of author acct.

    So when you have a 2 week old acct with 4 posts that are all “Can you send me samples” people have no clue how you write(or they are trying to boost post count) so they post “Can you send me samples”.
     
    averyz, Mar 5, 2014 IP
  5. Nusaint

    Nusaint Well-Known Member

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    #25
    While I do agree with some of the comments above, majority of the problem is with the writers themselves.

    I have tried a few so called America writers, Native English Speakers e.t.c only to find the content written something of an absolute joke! I don't profess to be an excellent writer but I am good at identifying spoof contents which is what some writers dish out here.

    Another example, I've decided to go with @coreygeer and just did a simple search and was able to dig out a couple or more dissatisfied clients of yours, while it is possible these have now been resolved it does not put a star shine on your reputation. If I am paying top quality, I expect not only quality content but the service that comes with it and it's a sad state that some writers don't provide that.

    Then on the other side you have the guy from the asian pacific or south asia willing to do the job for a lot less and while his writing and grammar is not of a native english speaking background he is willing to put the time into writing, provides top quality service and is dedicated to the cause of the project.

    Do I still have hope in the content section here on DP? Yes But I have stopped looking at sales copy letters of the writers (believe me some of them are so good they will sell water to a well) and instead discovering the writers themselves on the basis of dedication, agree with @tom11011 on requesting not one sample but a lot of samples across different niches, I even ask what the writer's strengths are and what niche/topic they are most fluid at.

    This process has served me well so far.

    Just my opinion and I hope someone finds it helpful.

    Regards
     
    Nusaint, Apr 10, 2014 IP
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  6. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Prominent Member

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    #26
    It appears that you have left us once again. Don't worry we will try not to forget you.;)

    OP I did find a couple of talented writers here and also some valuable contacts. From a buyers perspective the Content section does have some merit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
    Spoiltdiva, Apr 10, 2014 IP
  7. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #27
    You can't please everyone.

    I have clients that pay for projects that cost $200 to $1,000 upfront without a problem. Granted, they don't order these kind of projects every day, but I have plenty of long term clients who pay top dollar and are happy with my work.

    The only time I run into problems is when I refuse to write for penny chasers. I've been DDoSd after a client pulled my IP from Skype, I've had someone message people on my Facebook list, I've had fake screenshots made about me, etc.

    It's like the dating world. You meet some quality people and then you meet lunatics who have serious issues.

    You honestly wouldn't believe how pissed some people get when you refuse to write for their pricing. The majority of the time, they just say "alright, I'll hire someone else" and they move on. However, you get those rare times, when someone apparently has a few screws loose in their head and just does crazy things.

    The bottom line is, I have never had a single dissatisfied client that paid me top dollar (at least $20 per article). Most of them always pay up front and never have any complaints. The only time I run into any issues what so ever, is with the clients who want me to deliver silver and are paying for coal.

    DP is an interesting community. I don't see a lot of the same familiar faces posting anymore and now mods actively move anything that questions a penny chaser's post. Oh well. Times change.
     
    coreygeer, Apr 10, 2014 IP
  8. lpstong

    lpstong Notable Member

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    #28
    Many things came to my mind while reading this thread. No DP Content Creation wasn't always bad. I have been a member since 2006 and use to run several paid posting company services as well as a blog network. But I stopped doing it for several reasons.

    A) I went back to college in 2007. The money and I saved from the services and blog network paid for my 1st semester back to college and some of it went to my daughter who was my graphic designer for wall her help in design and for teaching me the basics.
    B)Outsourcing drove down prices.
    C)Buyers wanted .01 cent work to nearly asking for "free" or what I call slave labor. You get what you pay for.
    D) oDesk, Freelancer, Fiverr and other similar sites are saturated with those who want to earn and will do anything at the expense of others.
    E) I would suggest if you haven't already done so, is to create your own personal website and develop it to so you can found in the SE's. Maybe you might have better luck.
    F) Their is an idea out there somewhere that can minimize the effects of the industry that can bring back up reasonable rates to a more worthy standard. I would probably say it is the seller who can spin their integrity and experience that can be tied into a marketing idea or something of that sort.
     
    lpstong, Apr 16, 2014 IP
  9. BoostSoftware

    BoostSoftware Active Member

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    #29
    The best samples are the ones with your byline. No matter what, you just have to give it your all and this will reward you the most.
     
    BoostSoftware, Apr 16, 2014 IP
  10. wwstewart

    wwstewart Well-Known Member

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    #30
    Usually when someone asks me for samples, I just give them a link to my blog. If they can't find something on there that represents my work, then they are blind. Literally.
     
    wwstewart, Apr 25, 2014 IP
  11. DungeonMaster

    DungeonMaster Member

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    #31
    I offer my services still, but I don't get many clients, and the ones I get haven't left any public feedback. As you said, people want street sweepers to pave gold for them. It's really disheartening, seeing all my hard work being demanded for pennies. Occasionally I'll give in, but a lot of times I just can't.

    Yes, Textbroker has a lot of comma Nazis. They remind me of my cousin, actually. She's really picky about commas.

    CopyPress is okay when you can actually get work on there, but iWriter is a joke. Another site where people want high quality articles for a buck or two.

    And then people have the nerve to rant about freelance writers and what rip-offs they are when they've paid $5 for a 500 word article and only get an incoherent mess in return.

    Content is king! Show a little respect for those of us who are providing it to you.
     
    DungeonMaster, Apr 28, 2014 IP
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  12. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #32
    I stopped writing at Textbroker to be honest. I'm sorry but when I'm paid $5 to $10 per article, I'm not going to sit there and go through every comma with a fine tooth comb. I got demoted from 4 to 3 because of a couple of commas in my first 5 articles.

    All of the clients rated them 5 stars and loved my work but it didn't matter. The only thing that mattered was the smartass editors and the comments they left. That's why I hate editors. They all have their own different rules for how they think something should look and flow.

    A writer's hate for editors is like a web developers hate for web designers.

    I hear you on iWriter. I understand cheap people are picky but the pricing structure that goes on over there should almost be illegal.

    You start out at .50c per 100 word and the majority of the clients have a sub 50% approval rating. A lot of them have 10-25% for an approval rating with 10 or more submissions. Even if you make premium, you're still being paid at under $1.00 per 100 words and it's the same clients mass rejecting every piece they get.

    Textbroker would be great if you could just sit there and crank out $10 articles all day, because there's plenty of Level 4 work. Like most things though, it was too good to be true, because you have to not please their clients, but you have to appeal to some comma nazi editors. That system is bs and completely broken.

    If the clients paying you for the work you're doing are happy with what they got, why should you be demoted just because some editor doesn't like your commas? I've never once got something back in my life because of a comma until Textbroker. I'm not going to bend over backwards for them just to make it back to Level 4.

    Not only that, but it takes their editors months and I do mean months to rate your work. I have 10 or so Level 3 articles that have been sitting there for months and I haven't bothered to write their again. Plus, you have a 96 hour waiting period where a client may accept or reject your work. There's only one payday and that's Friday.

    If you don't finish all of your work on Friday, then you can't be guaranteed to make payment by Friday. A lot of the clients seem to let it sit the full 96 hours as well, so that's another turn off for me on Textbroker.

    I've been working with a friend in the web development field and I'm enjoying it a hell of a lot more. It pays more and you're not constantly chasing happy meal food trying to perform miracles for someone's piss poor template site they'll probably abandon in a month.

    I still get e-mails when new threads are made here, but it's the same crap. Someone from across the pond wants "contents for cheaps".

    The content section seems to be abandoned by the owner and if I remember correctly, I even saw a thread asking people if it was best to do away with the BST section completely. I could be wrong about that one but I think that's what it was.

    Some forums have people pay a $20 fee to place a WTB listing because that attracts slightly more serious buyers. Right now, you have people with only $20 left to their name trying to buy content.
     
    coreygeer, Apr 28, 2014 IP
  13. DungeonMaster

    DungeonMaster Member

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    #33
    I'll just throw in that content mills in general are pretty awful places to be, especially if you're trying to earn a livelihood.

    The only place I can think of where it's possible to make some decent money is Constant Content, but standards change from editor to editor. The weirdest thing about them, though, is that they expect their articles to be formatted like a college essay! I'm not opposed to writing essays (introduction, body with supporting evidence, and conclusion), but it doesn't make for good website reading. The other thing I don't like about it is that the site takes so much of the profit that I always feel like I'm overcharging so I get a good cut.
     
    DungeonMaster, Apr 28, 2014 IP
  14. tom11011

    tom11011 Well-Known Member

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    #34
    Here is the thing, its not that your content isn't worth a lot, it really is. But if you are writing something for a blog with a certain click through rate, the owner of the blog has to make more money for that post than they pay you. That's probably the issue, how does an owner of a blog "resell" your hard work for a profit?

    So let's say you write a perfect 500 word article for a blog and you can get an owner to pay you $20 for it. I think everyone would agree that's a good deal for you the writer right? Ok, the owner of the blog has to make that $20 back plus a profit in some way. The traditional way might be cost per click. That's a hard sell, especially for a blog that is new or has low readership.

    So new blogs should really be out of the question for you.

    A more mature blog probably sells adverting space and already has a formula on profit. He probably knows what he can afford to spend per post, the question is can you fit into his mold?

    It's simple economics most likely. Although a blog post can remain on a website forever, I suspect the owner has to make his profit in 30 days or the blog cease to exist.
     
    tom11011, Apr 28, 2014 IP
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  15. DungeonMaster

    DungeonMaster Member

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    #35
    You make it sound like we're trying to rob you of your home!

    Here's some perspective.

    Firstly, if you can't afford to outsource your work, don't. Even if you think you're not that good, stick with what you've got so you don't flush your funds down the toilet.

    For example, my new freelance website looks like crap. I suck at web development and design. Finding the blog itself is a nightmare! You'd never believe that I actually majored in web development back in the early 2000s! One day, I plan on outsourcing this to someone who knows what they're doing. Until that time, I'm going to keep plodding along with my eyesore website.

    Don't buy what you can't afford!

    Secondly, I think you're a bit confused about what content is supposed to do, kind of like your equating it with a PPC campaign.

    PPC = more traffic.

    This isn't what content is supposed to to.

    Content is an investment into your site and yourself. Its goal isn't to turn a profit, at least not in the short run, but to build a following, and to hold on to your audience. It doesn't matter if you wrote it yourself, outsourced it, or had a guest blogger come on. Content makes your website more valuable to your readers and to Google, but doesn't make traffic flow like magic. It takes a lot more than a blog post or Squidoo article to do that, unfortunately.

    Basically, content lets people see that you're more than a landing page and a ClickBank product. You're a human being who cares about their problems and enjoy the same activities that they do. It's purpose isn't to trick the ever-changing Google algorithms into sending you massive traffic, although your rank improves with more content, even if that content isn't read all that often.
     
    DungeonMaster, Apr 29, 2014 IP
  16. tom11011

    tom11011 Well-Known Member

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    #36
    And you make it sound so easy. If the owner of the website can't turn a profit, then whats the point? There will be no website for you to write articles for. People with passion and who don't care about the money are the exact people that aren't going to be calling you, they will write it themselves. People looking to make a buck are going to call you, but only if they can make a profit after paying all expenses, including yours.
     
    tom11011, Apr 29, 2014 IP
  17. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #37
    Call a plumber and tell them your business only makes a little money and see if they discount their rates. Think a corporate attorney would give you a 75% discount because you didn't turn a profit last year?

    Sure, you could fix your own leaking toilet or write your own contracts, but we both know that doesn't always end well.

    Same goes with written words. Sometimes site owners can write wonderful content. But, when they can't, writers shouldn't have to work for pennies an hour simply because the site isn't making money yet.
     
    YMC, Apr 30, 2014 IP
  18. DungeonMaster

    DungeonMaster Member

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    #38
    Yet paying $5 for a keyword-stuffed mess is hardly going to help your site profit. In fact, it may even decrease its traffic and click-through rate.
     
    DungeonMaster, Apr 30, 2014 IP
  19. tom11011

    tom11011 Well-Known Member

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    #39
    Hey, I hear what you are all saying, but the bottom line is this is a discussion about what to do about the situation. So what do you recommend? I've thrown out some reasoning with possible solution. What are all your suggestions for fixing the problem? Or is this just for complaints?
     
    tom11011, Apr 30, 2014 IP
  20. wwstewart

    wwstewart Well-Known Member

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    #40
    Content doesn't have to be profitable. But it helps if that content does serve a purpose, and I think both of you are correct in some aspects.

    Because without blog posts, we'd all just be zombo.com, but far more boring.
     
    wwstewart, May 11, 2014 IP