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Do you pay poor articles?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by farasens, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #21
    As usual, this weird little clown dyadvisor sees things that aren't there.


    farasens, I don't see what the problem is. Just don't pay them. ... Period.

    It seems that you are somehow feeling guilty???

    If they did indeed copied some of the content and or they were late in delivering, screw 'em.
     
    Perry Rose, Aug 8, 2010 IP
  2. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #22
    Hey burned out old cop, you were the only one wearing a clown suit. (even with a bubblegum badge)

    YMC already made an excellent post.

    The OP is a business person, someone out of your category.
     
    dyadvisor, Aug 8, 2010 IP
  3. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #23
    "Burned out old cop"? lol at least make sense SOMETIMES, fool.

    Didn't you take your blue pills yet?
     
    Perry Rose, Aug 8, 2010 IP
  4. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

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    #24
    You know I just do not understand why Perry comes into every thread and then starts out with bashing dyadvisor. Can you explain why, Perry? I ask because it seems that you are constantly doing the same thing. Can you not just let the thread be useful for something besides your jealous rants?
     
    gvannorman, Aug 8, 2010 IP
  5. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

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    #25
    Go away, little noob.
     
    Perry Rose, Aug 8, 2010 IP
  6. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

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    #26
    Perry, I am just wondering why you do what you do? If you had a comment to say to someone why does it always have to be negative? You do not add value to the majority of the threads that you post in. I say the majority because I have seen some of your post, and you seem intelligent. Then you come in and start this crap. Also, when does someone stop being a noob? Just wondering so you can stop calling me one. Can't wait for that day to happen.
     
    gvannorman, Aug 8, 2010 IP
  7. j3rr3my8

    j3rr3my8 Well-Known Member

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    #27
    I'm sorry but I have to quibble with that norman. Most of the comments I read from Perry are very helpful. To be honest I see a lot of people on here posting comments that only help themselves, whereas when Perry is not tangling with Dyadvisor, he is actually offering advice to people. Would you say that most of your posts are offering help, or asking advice?
     
    j3rr3my8, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  8. j3rr3my8

    j3rr3my8 Well-Known Member

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    #28
    You should have a look through all of the threads on this forum and see hw many of the posts by Perry are positive. There are an awful lot. Those that aren't helpful are quite funny - bonus
     
    j3rr3my8, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  9. EmpowerMedia

    EmpowerMedia Peon

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    #29
    Alright. Let's put the personal squabbles aside and get back to the original post. I am in a unique situation where I not only write web content for myself and others, but I also purchase it from others from time to time. This is because I do not have the time to write everything for the sites that I own. When doing work for other clients, I do all of the writing myself. I let others help me keep up with content on my sites. It is sometimes difficult to tell upfront who will be able to deliver quality content and who will not, but there are a few things that you can do in order to protect yourself. First, when looking for writers, look at the quality of writing that is evident in the response that they give to you. I am talking about simple email messages here. Does the person use correct grammar and diction? Do they write in complete sentences? If not, there is a good chance that they are either not fluent in English or have limited experience writing at all. There is a very good chance that this person will not be able to offer you quality content. Second, always ask for a writing sample before hiring someone to write content for you. Those who have written web content for any length of time will be able to provide you with an online writing portfolio chock full of links. When reviewing sample articles, look for search engine optimization and keywords in order to assess whether this person has a good grasp on your requirements. The best writers will be able to use your specified keywords in the first paragraph, in the last paragraph, and several times in between, providing you with an article that has a keyword density of between one and three percent for maximum results.

    If you hire a content writer longterm, use an NDA. A non-disclosure agreement can include clauses that prevents the writer from later publishing or using content that is written for you anywhere else. Be sure that the writer understands that full or exclusive rights to the content transfer to you upon receipt of payment. This protects both you and your writer. If you do not pay for content, you do not have the right to use the content anywhere. At the same time, if the writer does not meet your requirements and you have no use for the content, you have the right to not pay for the content under that agreement. With that being said, a relationship between a business person like yourself and any independent contractor is one built on trust. I recently had a situation where I wrote some very high quality content for a person that was 100% unique and was never paid for it. Even though he told me that the articles were great, he refused to pay. I later found where he had published the content online and DMCA'd the webmaster. If he had paid me what he owed for the content in the beginning, his cost would have been a lot less. After waiting seven months for payment, I charged him 50% more for the cost of the content.

    If you want a reputable writer, you will have to pay them what it is really worth for their time. Like someone else said here, offering less than $6 for a high quality article is setting yourself up for disappointment. If you pay for quality, it will give you a better return in the long run. Also, paying for 40 articles at a time is a bit much. At the very least, I would offer payment per set of ten articles. In addition, when working with new writers, give them one or two articles to work with at a time and then pay them for those articles first. This not only lets you see how well the writer will work for you but also lets the writer see that you are a legitimate business person that intends on paying for work.
     
    EmpowerMedia, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  10. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #30
    Generally good advice EM but I disagree on two points.

    Writers should never provide "samples". Many new writers are being scammed by this. The buyer asks for samples on his topic to decide who he wishes to hire. Once the samples arrive, he hires no one and the free articles eventually turn up posted on the "buyer's" website.

    If a buyer wished to see "examples" of my work, I will gladly point him to those places where I feel my previous work most closely matches the type of writing they are looking for. But, I will never provide work "samples" to get a job.

    As I said in another thread, an NDA is a very specific document with a specific purpose. It is not about copyrights nor is it about creating a contract for services. It's all about preventing the writer from using any materials provided by the buyer for another project. A over-reaching NDA can leave a writer in the unenviable position of being unable to take any other clients in the same field. Meaning a writer specializing in finance, after signing a strict NDA, can face being unable to work for any other client in their own niche.

    The term you are looking for, at least in the US, is "work for hire." When a creative product is produced under a "work for hire" arrangement, all copyrights automatically transfer to the buyer upon payment. Work for hire has a number of times when it comes into play automatically but I always specifically include the phrase and clearly state all copyrights transfer upon receipt of final payment.
     
    YMC, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  11. EmpowerMedia

    EmpowerMedia Peon

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    #31
    YMC, I do not advise anyone to provide "sample articles" in the form of a document exchanged via email. When I say writing samples, I mean providing a link to an existing work that is published online and includes your byline.

    On the second point, I think you are thinking of a non-compete agreement? I have seen some NDAs that will include a non-compete clause. As with any business situation, a contract would require both parties to agree. If a writer ever has an issue with a contract as presented by a buyer, they should discuss this. If the buyer is reluctant to amend the agreement to your liking, then do not work with them.
     
    EmpowerMedia, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  12. j3rr3my8

    j3rr3my8 Well-Known Member

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    #32
    Ok well getting back to the original thread, I think that most people who are writing online content tend not to have contracts. I've personally written over 2000 different pieces of work for people online and I have had to misfortune of not being paid only once, and I have to say that on this occasion I didn't deserve to get paid, and I didn't complain. one of my pieces of work was very late due to some family problems at the time, and the deadline was exceeded by a few days.

    The point I am making is that I think that there are a lot of people out there who are pretty honest, and if you deliver what you promise you rarely have troubles. From the point of view of the buyer, I would say that you should just pay people who deliver what you ask of them. If you don't want to get into the difficulties of having contracts then you should only employ people who are prepared to do the work before getting paid - there are plenty of those.

    Everyone varies, and some people really stress about some things, but if you are confident about your work, you'll probably always get paid, and with online work, I think that you do have to take the rough with the smooth sometimes, it all balances out :)

    For buyers the same applies. Ask to approve the work first, and you don't have any problems.
     
    j3rr3my8, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  13. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #33
    I think all 3 of you are on the correct track, but use different methods. In the last few weeks, I have easily found some writers work ranging from $300 to $2,500. A small order is always 100% upfront Credit Card, a larger, maybe 50%. The proof is a previous written article on the internet, with top ten Google search placements.

    The client is given the search terms, and can immediately verify, no fooling around. It is a matter of trust in ability plus proof.

    As for the contract, I rarely use one. If the client is not convinced, they are not really serious. If someone is going to pay $50 to $60 and make at least $4,000 there is not much left to discuss on paper.
     
    dyadvisor, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  14. ThisOldMan

    ThisOldMan Well-Known Member

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    #34
    I am sorry that you got a raw deal from the writers you hired. The main question is:

    1. Do you still need writers to add content to your website?
    2. If yes, do you want me to write one for you?
    3. If yes, state the content here and I will post my article for you here. For free.

    Over to you.
     
    ThisOldMan, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  15. EmpowerMedia

    EmpowerMedia Peon

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    #35
    Sure, ThisOldMan. I need a 500 word article on "erectile dysfunction," with that keyword being the primary keyword phrase. I would like a keyword density of close to 2.5% with LSI words included. Post it here, and let's see what you got. <_<
     
    EmpowerMedia, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  16. ThisOldMan

    ThisOldMan Well-Known Member

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    #36
    You are on. Err, I mean I am on it right now. Wait, not exactly right now. Got to do a bit of manual research on the subject first. Being 57 years old and counting, this may take a bit of time.

    Seriously, I will be posting that before you can make 1000 unique words from SUPERFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS. Make that 10,000 unique words. Better still, 100,000. Yes, 100,000 would a nice round figure.

    Footnote:
    If you don't see any post from me by Wednesday August 11, 2010 04:00 hours GMT, I am most probably in the ICU for resuscitation related to the topic you suggested.
     
    ThisOldMan, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  17. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #37
    May I request you refrain from posting that particular article and simply PM it to each other.
     
    YMC, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  18. EmpowerMedia

    EmpowerMedia Peon

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    #38
    Ha! It is great to see that you have a sense of humor, ThisOldMan! Of course, I was totally joking. Do NOT post an article here to this forum. Fifty-seven years old and still playing WoW, huh? That's pretty good.

    "Manual research".......I will have nightmares now.
     
    EmpowerMedia, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  19. parsibagan

    parsibagan Active Member

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    #39
    Thanks YMC, your request was timely and correct. However, I guess a non-embarrassing article can be written on `erectile dysfunction' by using terms like `penile' etc.
     
    parsibagan, Aug 9, 2010 IP
  20. ThisOldMan

    ThisOldMan Well-Known Member

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    #40
    Aww, now what do I do with the article I have started on already? Flush it down the toilet bowl together with the collateral product of my manual research? Shall I put in Pastebin and put the link here for those who are interested in knowing what type of refined rubbish ThisOldMan can produce?

    Footnote:
    I will keep on working on the article while you all decide where I should post it. Hmm, come to think of it, perhaps getting a research assistant might be useful.
     
    ThisOldMan, Aug 9, 2010 IP