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Do you ever feel bad for declining jobs you'd PREVIOUSLY accepted because of low pay?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by energeticinnovator, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #21
    Don't forget to add "I'm offering you bulk work" to the list.:)
    SEMrush
     
    Content Maestro, Apr 7, 2015 IP
    SEMrush
  2. WLEadmin

    WLEadmin Active Member

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    #22
    This. Well said, @Khovai!

    Good clients trust you to do your job. You don't chase them, they don't chase you. Two days ago, I actually had to tell a client that it's all right to ask me to hurry up if there's a schedule change and he suddenly needs the work quickly - otherwise he simply wouldn't tell me, because he understands that good work takes the time it takes. (And yes, he did ask me to hurry up, got a pile of work by return email and was happy.)
     
    WLEadmin, Apr 8, 2015 IP
  3. energeticinnovator

    energeticinnovator Greenhorn

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    #23
    This is hilariously timely. I just got told I "smoke crack" by someone after giving them my rates for 40, 75, 100 articles.

    I think they were expecting to hear something like $80, $150, $300 for all those articles. Needless to say I gave them rates on what I'm presently earning per article (I thought I was being generous by not going the "per word" route) and they were horrified.

    I am still laughing. I would understand not replying at all if I'm out of your price range, but the assumption that I'm overcharging just goes to show how some people assume that freelance writing = cheap, practically free labor.

    I politely informed the person why I charged what I did and assured them that I live a drug-free existence. :rolleyes:
     
    energeticinnovator, Apr 22, 2015 IP
  4. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #24
    Whoever has assumed that freelance writing equates to "cheap" or "practically free labor" is the one smoking crack.:) I've provided a link to a doc on another thread that explains how you should set your rates and describes what writers actually charge for different types of writing - http://www.writersdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/WM_HMSIC.pdf. The stats are more or less old though. Maybe that person needs a dose of it.
     
    Content Maestro, Apr 22, 2015 IP
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  5. energeticinnovator

    energeticinnovator Greenhorn

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    #25
    Thanks for confirming the fact that I'm not crazy. :)
     
    energeticinnovator, Apr 22, 2015 IP
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  6. WLEadmin

    WLEadmin Active Member

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    #26
    As opposed to being the one smoking crack because they probably expect to attract traffic and potential customers with content produced for the smallest possible amount of time and money. Someone needs a reality slap! :D
     
    WLEadmin, Apr 22, 2015 IP
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  7. Write Now

    Write Now Greenhorn

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    #27
    Don't lower your standards for others. Plain and simple. If you provide $0.06 per word in value, then there's no shame in turning down offers that don't meet your criteria.

    Recently, I replied to an ad on a freelance website that advertised "competitive rates for high quality work". I clearly stated that my minimum was $0.03 per word. The client seemed interested, but after wasting an excruciating amount of my time, he offered me $10 per 2,000 words ($50 below what I put in the application). Needless to say, I was baffled. I politely told him that I would have to pass and we parted ways.

    To be fair, a large majority of site owners that try to low ball writers inevitably fail. Why? Because they end up with sub-par content that no one wants to read. There are site owners out there that understand the true value of quality writing and are willing to pay handsomely for it.
     
    Write Now, Apr 22, 2015 IP
  8. AlkalinoS

    AlkalinoS Greenhorn

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    #28
    Personally, I think that motivation and passion should stimulate your daily job. Not saying that you should not worry about the money but when I was looking for a job, I was looking for:

    1) a company that shares the same values that I have (pushing for innovations, respects of others and a motivating direction team)
    2) a product that I like and that I am proud of
    3) the payroll
    4) ...

    So of course we can't work for free but that's my pov.
    In your case, the way you react, I can see it as a huge turn off so I would not feel bad if I were you.
    (I am french and doing my best in English, sorry for mistakes)
     
    AlkalinoS, Apr 22, 2015 IP
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  9. energeticinnovator

    energeticinnovator Greenhorn

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    #29
    It's okay, I got the gist of what you were saying and you speak a lot of truth. I do think it's possible to both write for a client you like/about subjects you like and be paid a fair price. I wouldn't say that money is everything, but if you're trying to earn a living and someone balks at the idea of writers being given a living wage...it's a little aggravating.

    This was hilarious though. Never had someone suggest my rates meant that I was an avid drug user. ...That's a new one.:rolleyes:
     
    energeticinnovator, Apr 22, 2015 IP
  10. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #30
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
    Content Maestro, Apr 22, 2015 IP
  11. deltamas

    deltamas Active Member

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    #31
    You must discard sentimental side of yourself and do what they're told by the client, and facing all those problems by focusing on speed and mind. I am an Indonesian, and can write 40 articles a day, each 300 words, and get $ 60. Means $ 1,800 a month and it is a substantial income in my country.

    I do not know how the living standard in your country, but I assume that you live in the US / UK, if $ 5 is a small value, then you have to reach qualified customers, rather than in the forums. Or you can switch professions to other areas on the Internet.


    Life is hard but it will be more difficult if you complain
     
    deltamas, Apr 24, 2015 IP
  12. energeticinnovator

    energeticinnovator Greenhorn

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    #32
    I wasn't sure how to respond to this because I don't like being rude or coming across as unappreciative if someone is trying to help me. So I'm going to try to address this as politely as possible. Please don't be offended.

    (1) I don't care what the standard of living is in your country: 40 articles for $60 USD is madness, especially if all done in a single day. Many people don't put out that many articles per week and they earn far more. I know from experience. This means that you are being taken advantage of. Your mentality is WHY you are being taken advantage of, and seeing this makes my heart hurt.

    (2) If you are writing articles in English as a non-native English speaker, I can see why you are being charged so little based on what you've communicated here and how. My advice to you is to work on your English grammar with as much fervor as you put out articles. A person doesn't put out 40 articles per day without having a strong work ethic.

    However, I worry that most of that work ethic is being applied to churning out articles that may not be of the best possible quality while ignoring the need to improve so that you'll earn more money. It's not enough to be fast; you must also be efficient. Quality trumps quantity any day of the week. Apply yourself in terms of writing better quality articles so that you may find that they're worth $150 each rather than $1.50.

    I promise you that it is possible to earn as much for ONE article rather than a hundred.

    (3) You are not a slave and the client doesn't own you, even if you sign a contract. You are providing a necessary service and should be paid accordingly. I only feel guilt if I take on a job through a personal misunderstanding or having made a promise. That doesn't mean I use that guilt (which is often temporary) as fuel to run myself into the ground for someone who is underpaying me while overworking me.

    My motto is "Work smarter, not harder". Work isn't just about the body and being physically capable of completing a task; your mind is essential as a writer. Develop it through learning new and better writing techniques and branching into new areas of writing and writing niches. Sometimes being an expert in topics like SEO or fitness may allow you into a well-paying position. Experience and education can also influence pay.

    It sounds to me like you've been doing this awhile (nobody wakes up and churns out 40 articles per day), which means that you have either not improved or you have not mentally progressed to a point where you understand that more experience means more pay and you continue to take the lowest paying jobs possible because it's all you need and all you are used to. I suspect you do so out of a sense of gratefulness for being hired rather than question the possibility that you are extremely overworked and extremely underpaid. If you're earning $1800 and that's a lot of money, you probably never considered that you technically should be earning at least 5 times that unless your clients are from your part of the world and exist in a society with the same standard of living.

    If your clients are from my part of the world (the West), then I must apologize to you on their behalf for their shameful practices and willingness to exploit you.


    Now, pay aside, can someone please tell me how in the world to churn out 40 articles per day? I feel like this is a talent I genuinely want because I am a perfectionist/workaholic and this is a new life goal.
     
    energeticinnovator, Apr 24, 2015 IP
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  13. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #33
    Use an article spinner. I don't know any other way to do it.
     
    Content Maestro, Apr 24, 2015 IP
  14. deltamas

    deltamas Active Member

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    #34
    1. I didnt mean offend you
    2. 80% of my clients are from India, 20% from Ukraine. They are often unaware of the relationship between keywords and phrases. they focused on the theme and the number of letters, and I just run their instruction, even if they are not satisfied, they dont need to pay me. For me, client is my king.
    3. I used to typing 3-4 articles in 1 hour (each 300 words)
    4. on the sidelines of typing, I can work on stocks and forex. There, I can increase my income up to several times
    5. yes, I am workaholic, you can call me work like a slave, and that's the reason I've had 4 standard houses that I could rent out as passive income ( only $10,000 per year for total 4 houses, but $ 10,000/year in my country means comfortable living).
    6. My solution is to accept the reality of life and work harder and smarter, but if you feel offended, that was not my intention, and Iam sorry:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
    deltamas, Apr 24, 2015 IP
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  15. deltamas

    deltamas Active Member

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    #35
    I dont use any spinner and based on my experience, I used to do "writing and thinking" at the same time. As far as they are satisfied, they can pay me, and if they are not satisfied, they do not have to pay me. as simple as that.
     
    deltamas, Apr 24, 2015 IP
  16. energeticinnovator

    energeticinnovator Greenhorn

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    #36
    Oh, I am not offended. I was actually worrying about offending you. :rolleyes: It's all good. ^.^

    I just feel like you should be earning SO MUCH MORE. But if you're happy, I'm happy for you. :cool:



    I don't even know what that is. ...Is that good or bad?
     
    energeticinnovator, Apr 24, 2015 IP
  17. WLEadmin

    WLEadmin Active Member

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    #37
    There are SO many things wrong in this that it's honestly disturbing. Just a few thoughts, with apologies for being blunt:

    a. Being employed is not the same as being a client's slave. You offer a service and deserve to be paid properly for that service, not to subdue your needs to the whims of cheap-ass scumbags who don't pay you properly. That's the whole point of being a freelancer - you get rid of bad bosses!

    b. 12,000 words a day = spewing crap, unless you're a phenomenon. As you mentioned, your clients don't know diddly, and you're not helping them by generating junk that doesn't help their businesses. They won't earn, they won't generate more profit, they won't ever understand the importance of proper content. You should be working for people who know better, and who will pay better.

    c. This post is indicative of the underlying, utterly depressing state of online earning, particularly in non-Tier-1 countries: no matter what you do to try to help people earn better and achieve more, 95% simply don't want help. They just want to be paid pennies for enormous amounts of effort, provided they get it right now, this instant, immediately. No thought for the future at all. The only acceptable reason for this is survival (been there, know how that feels) - otherwise you're just committing yourself to perpetual slavery, generating crap at the bottom end of the market instead of doing something worthwhile.
     
    WLEadmin, Apr 24, 2015 IP
  18. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #38
    My comment was general, not specifically directed towards anyone.
    I'm amazed you don't know about article spinners. In fact, I haven't heard of any web content writer who doesn't know what they are. The page here will explain – http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-article-spinner.htm.
    In all seriousness, it's TOTALLY bad.
    You also get to be your own boss.:)
     
    Content Maestro, Apr 24, 2015 IP
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  19. energeticinnovator

    energeticinnovator Greenhorn

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    #39
    Wow, @WLEadmin you weren't pulling any punches. :eek: :rolleyes:

    I can't say I disagree with anything you wrote, primarily your emphasis on article quality. I honestly believe that one well written article is worth the price of at least ten poorly written articles. And usually prices reflect as much. Some people are looking to get over on writers who don't know better; others don't really understand the "you get what you pay for" principle. But if you're constantly working to improve yourself, I think these things are less of an issue.

    I've been at this long enough to bypass anyone who would expect a quality, perfect article for $2. But I guess I also have compassion for people who take these jobs because (1) they think they can't do better or (2) they are content to enter the global writing market and be paid less because it agrees with their nation's standard of living. Freelance writing is now an international job market thanks to the Internet; you should be thinking bigger and better no matter where you come from.

    I am not surprised at this person's response because as I said in the past "good and fair pay" is often relative to your standard of living. Someone may be happy to put out low quality articles or even good quality articles for $2 each if the pay is far greater than what they'd earn otherwise. Just as I can't fathom being paid so little for my work, someone else probably couldn't fathom the rate at which their pay would increase if they applied themselves more efficiently.

    I am sometimes tempted to be upset at these writers, particularly those coming into the Western market who charge or such abysmal rates. However as I said and others have said this is a problem that doesn't really affect you once you move to a certain pay grade. I don't go out of my way to seek out or respond to low-paying clients. I just have to make certain I communicate my rates before taking on a client/job in order to avoid any confusion.
     
    energeticinnovator, Apr 24, 2015 IP
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  20. energeticinnovator

    energeticinnovator Greenhorn

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    #40
    I honestly haven't had contact with the term. I am not surprised that software like this exists though; people have been manually trying to pull of crap like this for years. I guess they got cramps in their hands from all the stealing and decided to make life easier for themselves. Ugh...
     
    energeticinnovator, Apr 24, 2015 IP
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