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Do you believe in gun control?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by MarcL, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. #1
    Do you believe in gun control?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2014
    MarcL, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  2. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #2
    Hell yes, if arseholes lose the plot I'd rather they used their fists, a knife etc. The first person they meet might be a goner but they're less likely to kill the numbers we hear about in the US.
     
    sarahk, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  3. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Damn right I do. All those pieces of sh*t going into schools and movie theaters and opening fire on innocent people only illustrate how inept people are to responsibly possess firearms. Take all the guns and let those a*sholes fight it out like men, with fists...
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 16, 2014 IP
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  4. iowadawg

    iowadawg Prominent Member

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    #4
    Control you gun with two hands.
    That is what I believe in.

    Take guns away and only criminals will have guns.
    Like the killers in the above post, they will get guns one way or another.
     
    iowadawg, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  5. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #5
    And just how do you think criminals get those guns? They get them from folks who bought them legally.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  6. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #6
    In NZ the cops have guns in locked boxes in their cars, not on their hips. Hunters and farmers have guns. Criminals too I guess but we have very few "aggravated robberies" - so few that they make the national headlines. The shit hits the fan when the cops kill someone but more often than not it'll be a case of "suicide by cop". What we truly don't have is the guy who freaks out and shoots up his old workplace, his school, the mall etc. The rest of the world sits back and wonders why the US doesn't do the two things it really needs to do
    1. sort out it's mental health care issues
    2. sort out it's gun control
    For a while there it looked like Obama was going to have a go at gun control but I'm guessing the NRA lobbyist earned themselves a fat bonus check and got the issue "overlooked".
     
    sarahk, Aug 16, 2014 IP
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  7. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #7
    I'm from Texas, a very conservative state, and most of my life, I believed people should have the right to bear arms if they want. Then I saw how some kid took his father's hand gun to school and killed several class mates, and it's happened time and again. Just 3 months ago, some guy, ex military, held his wife and child hostage at gunpoint 2 houses from where I live. No one was killed, fortunately, but he had the gun he used legally, and so did the father of that kid.

    I looked up "elementary kid shoots classmates" on Google and this is what I saw (all on the first page of the results):

    "Fifth grade boy's plot to kill classmates thwarted"
    "Boy 6 accused in classmate's killing"
    "Prosecutors - fifth grade boy brought gun to school"
    "the killing of Kayla: On Tuesday the boy brought a pistol to an elementary school in Mount Morris Township, near Flint, Mich., and shot a classmate, Kayla Rolland, ..."
    "An 11-year-old boy was convicted Friday of conspiracy to commit murder"

    Search any relative set of keywords and phrases ("man commits mass murder", "child accidentally shot", "man kills entire family", "pistol used in rampage", and so on) and you will find thousands of senseless killings, most committed by individuals with a legal right to bear arms.

    Sure the most dedicated criminals will find a way to get access to guns, but if the government were to simply ban firearms and take them all away, there would be a lot less senseless killings.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 16, 2014 IP
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  8. bmc2009

    bmc2009 Active Member

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    #8
    No, I don't believe in gun control. I believe in criminal control. Look at some of the cities with the strictest gun control laws in the US, like Chicago, and they have one of the highest murder and crime rates from guns in the nation. Banning guns only takes it out of the law-abiding citizens hands. Criminals will still manage to get their hands on guns either way, and gun control isn't going to stop anyone but law-abiding citizens. I'm a native Texan with these views. Let's find a way to focus on controlling the criminal population, implementing strict background checks on all gun purchases, not selling to anyone who's a felon/convicted criminal, etc. Most importantly, to curb gun violence, let's focus on implementing strict mental health programs that prevent the mentally ill from obtaining access to guns, since they're most often the ones who shouldn't have access to them (besides criminals).
     
    bmc2009, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  9. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Anyone in Chicago can drive a couple cities away and buy a gun, or they can go on one of the many gun selling websites and buy one without even a background check. As for "criminal control", how has that even remotely helped to solve our gun violence problem? The US has more people in prison than anywhere else in the world, yet we have one of the highest murder per capita rates in the world. Locking people up has never been an effective way to curb violence.

    I'm also a native Texan and I once held these same views, but no longer do. That argument about only criminals having guns if the government banned them is so cliche it's funny. Countries that have severely restricted the right of its citizens to own firearms have seen drastic reductions in gun related crimes in most cases. In no case has there been a criminal rampage in the wake of gun control laws.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  10. MarcL

    MarcL Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Cities with more lax gun laws statistically have less crime.. cities with more strict gun laws have more crime. Statistics are what tell the truth beyond opinion.
     
    MarcL, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  11. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #11
    I remember reading one newspaper article about a city, I think it was in Missouri, that made gun ownership mandatory. The article showed statistics that illustrated that violent crimes were almost non existent and gun rights advocates cited this as proof that gun rights reduce violent crime. What they failed to mention in this article, however, is that the city in question only had about 20k residents, most were related and there had never been a high crime rate in the city.

    The fact is, if I wanted to prove the moon was simply a reflection of the earth, I could pull statistics and studies out the ass to prove my claim. Does that mean I'm right? not at all. The fact is, the US has the laxest gun laws in the world and one of the highest incidents of gun related crimes. You can't break this down into cities because all those cities are part of a gun toting whole, the US of A.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  12. marajuana

    marajuana Peon

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    #12
    guns dont kill people, people kill people
     
    marajuana, Aug 16, 2014 IP
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  13. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #13
    Ha ha! It doesn't get more cliche than that! :p
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  14. MarcL

    MarcL Well-Known Member

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    #14
    MarcL, Aug 16, 2014 IP
  15. cblanke

    cblanke Well-Known Member

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    #15
    I have read some good post above. I feel that is is not gun control that would end gun violence as if you look at the statistics in the US almost all gun violence is committed by people with mental health issues. The reason this is is because the US emptied and closed there mental health facilities and put these people on the streets and there is no where to put them except on the streets. If you control the people with mental health issues you can get a pretty big handle on the violence that involves guns. And the big factor here is that the legal gun owners need to be more serious about keeping there guns locked up where these people can not access these weapons. Take James Holmes in the Aurora Colorado Theater shooting. He was seeking mental health help for mental health issues and was just ignored over and over until he broke. If he would have been listened to from the gate it would have never happened. Not that i am condoning what he done as it was wrong in every sense of the word, but that is just where our mental health provisions have gone and needs to be fixed for people with mental health issues.
     
    cblanke, Aug 17, 2014 IP
  16. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #16
    None of this will change my mind that there are way too many senseless gun killings, that they are increasing every day and that the only real solution lies in gun control. Take away the guns and those killings will, for the most part stop. Do you really think a 6 year old boy would go on a killing spree at his school with his fists or a knife? Yet there have been numerous gun killing sprees in elementary schools.

    Many people don't like the idea of gun control and have all sorts of reasons why it "won't work". But in every single country where this has been done, it has worked and as my dad used to say, "the proof's in the pudding". We can argue this till we're blue in the face and get absolutely no where. But I know for fact that if the United States government were to make gun ownership illegal and take every effort to destroy the guns currently in people's hands, like it or not, there would be a major reduction in violent, senseless crime. It doesn't matter that guns are incapable of killing without some moron behind the trigger, the truth is, they are used to kill, by individuals who in most cases wouldn't have the guts to take a life any other way. The argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is just as applicable to a nuclear bomb, yet I seriously doubt you'd argue in favor of letting people own those.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 17, 2014 IP
  17. Kerosene

    Kerosene Alpha & Omega™ Staff

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    #17
    The genie is already out of the bottle in the US.
    Outlawing the object used to commit the crime won't make any difference.
    Murder is already illegal.
    If I was living in the US, I'd carry a handgun 24/7.
    -----
    But I'm not in the US.
    I'm in Australia, where the average scumbag carries a kitchen knife.
    Which is illegal to carry - whether you're a criminal or a chef.
    This law doesn't affect the criminal.
    This law only affects the chef, who wants to obey the law.
    If the chef leaves his knives at home, are we any safer from the criminal?
    ***Creating more laws only affects those that obey the law.***
    -----
    That said, it seems that most people in AU/NZ DO obey the law, so I guess I pretty much agree with sarahk.
    But, our genie is still in the bottle.
     
    Kerosene, Aug 18, 2014 IP
  18. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #18
    People are people and a criminal will be a criminal regardless of the laws. But I do know for fact that if those two boys weren't able to get guns in Columbine, there would be a lot more school kids alive; if that 6 year olds father hadn't had a gun, he wouldn't have been able to take it to school and shoot his classmate. So many of these senseless murders (which were not committed by brutal criminals, but by confused teenagers with easy access to firearms) would not take place without access to guns.

    Many people who use guns to kill would not kill with a knife or other weapon. A gun makes killing easy because it's impersonal and can be done quickly and at a distance. Take that impersonalization away and many killers would not be killers and many people would not be shot to death by cowards with guns.

    Taking guns away would not solve all the worlds problems, nor would it solve the violent crime problem, but it would definitely reduce the number of violent crimes and murder and in my opinion that makes it all worth it.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 18, 2014 IP
  19. Kerosene

    Kerosene Alpha & Omega™ Staff

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    #19
    I agree with this. But laws won't fix angry teenagers wanting to kill people.
    ---
    Plenty of Australian teenagers get angry and "lose it". And plenty of them have access to firearms.
    They get in fist fights, do burnouts, get wasted, and pass out - without any desire to go on a mass murder rampage.
    And it's not because it's "against the law". It's because they don't WANT TO KILL PEOPLE.
    There are so many things that I love about the US, but something is making your kids very sick in the head.
    It's not the guns that are making your kids go nuts.
     
    Kerosene, Aug 18, 2014 IP
  20. Jameyson MacDonald

    Jameyson MacDonald Well-Known Member

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    #20
    Unfortunately, Hollywood has created a subculture of teenage killers in the US. In the past 15 years, this has been inadvertently popularized by overzealous new anchors, games and movies that glamorize mass murder. And you're right, laws won't fix this problem. But what they will do is make it much more difficult for them to act on it.
     
    Jameyson MacDonald, Aug 18, 2014 IP