do you believe in god??

Where you fail in your attempt at forming a logical opinion, rowen, is to assume that the universe was in fact "created", when a more likely scenario would be that it formed. It could have formed in a perfectly natural way with no intervention from magical invisible men.

So simply throwing your hands in the air and saying "i don't know how it happened, So magic man done it!" is, when you look at it, Not a particularly logical way to form an "opinion" at all. what you are basically saying is that a logical explanation for anything you currently have no answer for is anything you can imagine, regardless how absurd it is. An opinion that the universe was "created" by custard, dead worms or Ralf Wiggum would be equally supported by your evidence, Evidence which seems to consist of nothing except the fact that you are currently unaware of any natural processes that could have initiated it.

When we inevitably find out how this universe, Time, space, energy and matter formed will you be inclined to start disbelieving in god? Or is your belief that god made the universe more of an excuse to believe than a reason?

 

Dude, you obviously don't understand the first thing about the Big Bang model, so why pretend that you do?

 

I dont think it magically happend I just think the moment of creation is unfathomable amazing thing, thats what I was saying.You mentioned "invisible men", I don't think God can be depicted in any way shape or form, that idea stems from Michelangelo and the like , he's a genuis, but a simplistic view of God

I don't really want to get into a slanging match as we all know how these debates get, but my position is simple?

how can time be infinite?

I think God is above time

now the usual rebuttal to this is "well, who created God?"

Thats why he *not in the anthropomorphic sense* is God

Its either: 1.Universe/Time exists in the past till infinity


2. At some point in the past, the universe has a cause

For me position 1 is just untenable

God Is also seen in created works. Would you argue the Mona Lisa was created randomly, it just came into existence, the thousands upon thousands of brushstrokes Leonardo used just automatically took the form of a masterpiece? I wouldn't, so how can I make the claim the master brushstroke, planet earth and its heavens, infinetely superior to a human painting, came of itself?

 

We know how paintings are made though. If there was a process, a natural process, Which could be demonstrated, observed and tested by which paintings could form on their own then it would be perfectly reasonable to believe, If we didn't know that paintings had to be painted, that the Mona Lisa came into existence on it's own via this demonstrable natural process. We know people paint paintings, You, On the other hand, Don't know that universes need "creators", You are simply assuming it because you currently have no alternate explanation or process. You basically believe in a god of the gaps.

 

Its really a non-discuss subjects.
Actually i think its depends on only the mind of religion.
I think only one GOD is present, who make the World world ,You, and I.
You can see this:
(1)http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=49
(2)http://godallah.com/moon_god.php
(3)http://islam.about.com/od/godallah/God_Allah.htm
(4)http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/god.htm
(5)http://www.sultan.org/articles/god.html
(6)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Islam
(7)http://www.muslim.org/islam/int-is31.htm
(8)http://www.allah.org/
(9)http://www.google.com.bd/url?sa=t&c...CtuAuHEXxTwk859lQ&sig2=JBwvKzb1C7Zu7mGAEOaSsg

 

How can you not believe in god?????

Who Made everything? How did you be here on earth? Who created the planet, Sky, Plants, Animals, Humans, Quran, Bibla, Torra... Please dont answer if u dont know what to say.

 

Nobody made them. They don't need to be created. They form via natural processes, Besides the religious books - They were made by primitive desert nomads with a lot of time on their hands and a desire to fleece the credulous out of their money.

My dad had sex with my mum... I'm not certain of the details regarding that particular event.

 

How can something be there? how did u father be alive? and grand grand grand grand grand father be alive? How is nature formed?

Sun, Moon, Rain, Storms, Ocean .....

 

You could use a visit to a good library... but make sure you head for the science shelves. Steer away from the religion section.

 

I was raised Roman Catholic, but have been agnostic my entire adult life.

 

I love science. If science was a big breasted woman I would marry her. But science has not proven the non-existence of god nor has it proved that god is unnecessary to a complete cosmology. If you take the most popular view of how the universe formed, the big bang, then you still have the issue of what existed before the singularity, and according to what I have read science so far says nothing. Well more correctly no-thing, as in no thing we have yet to fathom existed before the singularity that became our universe. It is still possible that the big theory itself is dis-proven as it has been many times over and, according to the rules of my big breasted woman, reformulated with new evidence. Be an athiest, agnostic, or pastafarian all you want but don't pretend at knowledge that does not exist.
Here is a good list of unanswered questions about the nature of our universe and how modern physics has failed to answer them. It reads like stereo instructions so if you are afraid of big words and have a tendency to headaches you might want to avoid it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsolved_problems_in_physics
Here is my pet favorite unanswered question"
Emergent phenomena
Is a complete understanding of particle physics sufficient to fully understand all physical phenomena, or are there emergent phenomena in physics whose existence cannot be definitively predicted from a complete understanding of the fundamental particles and forces that govern the universe? For example, will the laws of physics be able to say anything about consciousness?***

 

You know the big bang theory was formulated by a catholic priest who was a mathematician, right?

There is also a common misconception that the big bang theory claims the universe came from nothing, When what it actually says is that the universe originated from a very dense, very hot state. It's more an explanation of the expansion of the universe than of the origin.

it's also fairly dangerous to think that god is a plausible explanation for anything we currently don't understand. The danger of this is evident when you look at the creationist movement. Believing in a god of the gaps becomes very hard when science starts filling those gaps with evidence based explanation which force out primitive myths. Then people, Like creationists, Find themselves humiliating themselves on an almost daily basis by deliberately misunderstanding science.

 

I do believe. Although I do like science, I feel it is impossible to prove everything. Science may think they know, but they don't always know. Some things are a mystery and I have seen some miracles myself that science has yet to explain.

 

That "hot dense state" is pretty much what I meant when I said singularity. The expansion would have quickly occurred and in some models continued after the Big Bang which is a really bad name for the current model since their would have been no real bang so to speak but an expansion like you say. The mystery of origin is being studied right now by scientists and so far they have yet to discover what could have existed before this singularity. Best guesses I have read talk about either no-thing (not even empty space) or some sort of universal energy, a cosmological constant which Einstein introduced and later said it was one of his worst ideas. Yeah mind bending stuff.

Anything is a plausible explanation for the unexplained but not for the explained but misunderstood. We have been on a steady climb of technological and scientific discovery for a few hundred years now and when it slows down back to a crawl I guarantee you there will still be people who believe in some sort of God. There is the glaring possibility that some things are beyond science.

 

and if 'god' was outside the big bang singularity, than it wouldn't be affected by god b/c sxingularities are impenetrable boundaries.

 

Many things are a mystery until we go for the books or the internet and find out that there is a rational answer already.
Have you tried to have real scientists explain what you call miracles or you are relying on what you know? It's a bit pretentious if you do. Also, scientists are discovering and explaining things on a daily basis, so "has yet to explain" doesn't mean cannot be explained