As a DMOZ editor I cannot for the life of me understand why they make it so difficult for proven, trusted editors to take on additional duties. I edit my regional, local category, which is very small with only about 70 sites listed. I have been doing this for four years. Since I am willing to put a bit more time into this I decided that I should offer my services on a broader, geographical area. I had tried this a couple of years ago and I was rejected but I am a mature person and knowledgeable about the region I sought. I also have four years of edits on my current category where I can be "judged". Needless to say I was declined for the following reasons 1. "Not enough edits - You may not have enough edits for additional permissions based on your experience level, or not enough edits to qualify for the requested category." To me this seems to be a classic Catch 22 situation. They say I need more edits. I have diligently edited every submission that I have received during the last four years. They tell me I need more edits and don't allow me to do them? 2. "Need to improve general editing - You may need to brush up on your titles or descriptions, or you may be listing sites which are against guidelines or more appropriate elsewhere in the directory." Apart from a couple of critical emails I received four years ago when I started out I have had no indication of any problems with my editing skills. I was not given any indication of where my skills were perceived to be lacking. This of course is subjective but I still believe that the work I have done is fine. 3. "Application incomplete - Please fill in at least 2-3 URL samples for the requested category." I was applying for Greenbuster permissions. The application form stated that the samples were not required for Greenbusters. The email signed off with, "We hope to accept you the next time you apply - the ODP needs motivated editors like you!" Yeah, right! I replied to the letter questioning what had been said and I was basically told that an editors role is to go out and find websites rather than to wait for them to be submitted. I regularly look for new sites within my region and I can find no suitable sites that have been omitted. As I say it is a very small region and I can find nothing to add to it. Also, with the waiting time for submissions to be processed in some other categories wouldn't the editors spare time not be better spent dealing with this? This is the cause of most of the bad publicity that DMOZ receives. Some of the senior editors in DMOZ appear to have an inflated idea of their own importance. I resent being spoken to like an errant schoolboy. Particularly when the "teacher's" own grammar is suspect. This is the second time I have experienced this. These people should be doing all they can to advance the directory and to encourage editors to take on more categories. They should not be putting obstacles in their path. This experience has soured my whole perception of the DMOZ movement to the extent that I will never apply again. (And I hope some senior editors are available to comment on this.)
You know its not policy to discuss internal DMOZ matters publically. You should have raised this in the internal forums. How much longer do you expect to remain an editor after posting this?
I got it off my chest - and if I lose my editor status then I won't be shedding any tears because it will be their loss. Remember that I only have less than 100 sites in my category and I have been editing it for four years. I was not offering to do this for personal gain. I don't believe in secret societies or voluntary organisations who treat volunteers like they were privileged so perhaps I should be sacked.
I see there is another editor turned to the dark side! Come join us in our plans to destory Jedi meta temple. Because even proven, trusted editors can fall to the dark side, like in my case after adding almost 500 new websites they had to remove me once I've started using force for evil. I got the same reason for category which had grand total of two website listed! BTW how long did you wait for that reply it took them week or two minimum in my cases, usually month or two to reject or approve new categories... by that time I didn't even care about new categories... There is nice way around meta inquisitors if you have read my and annies posts: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=3244411&postcount=69 http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=3254829&postcount=70 But then again you can always be removed and that work will be stuck like my in your test folder forever. You can always join Wikipedia where you can edit anywhere without having to beg anyone! If your good with languages there are thousands of language links missing, I've added over 3000 of them on English wiki (my profile), so that would mean some 6000 edits on all wikis putt together! Yep, he is heretic for daring to talk about what sucks at DMOZ, burn him at the stake!
No, not at all. I am happy to continue to edit this category to the best of my ability if they want me to do so but I shall not be applying for any more. It's just too painful an experience.
You went from one regional category to trying to be greenbuster? That right there is likely the main reason. Maybe try for some other categories that interest you first...
Whole point of greenbuster is suppose to get quick access but not full editing rights: http://dmoz.org/guidelines/greenbuster/
Personally I'd assume that before you can get that position you'd need to be an editor in at least a couple of categories. Yeah, it has limited permissions, but that's still a pretty big jump from just editing a single regional cat.
First of all, I have no idea which editor you are, what your regional category is or how long ago this incident occurred. Because of that, I can only offer general advice. It seems that there might be some issues with your editing. If you prefer not to ask the meta who declined your application, I suggest you visit the appropriate Regional internal forum and ask for a cat check. You'll get advice from seasoned editors who will explain what needs to be improved. You might not like that advice but it's always well intended and nearly always good. Greenbusters is good because it helps editors trapped in tiny categories to get some editing experience in a safe environment. There's a downside though. For every GB edit that you make, somebody else has to follow you around and either accept it or decline it - hopefully pointing out where you went wrong. In my opinion, it just isn't an efficient use of resources for very long. Usually, one hopes to be able to grant full permissions there pretty quickly. A cat with 70 listings isn't tiny. Once you've been through a cat check, you should be able to request full permissions in another category of the same order of size or so in confidence. Another route is to build a new cat in your bookmarks and then request that it be transferred to the live directory. I'm not excusing the given reasons for declining your request because I don't know the circumstances. It might well be that the reviewing meta didn't notice that you'd asked for GB. As martty said, your questions would have been better asked in the internal fora. People there could actually investigate your complaint and give you more specific advice. Why did I bother to do all that typing? Because I thinks it's a pity to discard 4 years of work. I hope that you do too.
So what you are saying is that metas are incompetent to do their work properly, but quick to fire new editors as if they were their bitches ? Probably bdw will get fired like martty said, and i am sure pvgooat (pvgool or w/e that guys name is) is already on the job tracking bdw's true identity, as he is mosta's bitch
Don't be silly, I said no such thing. Most metas are human though, so yes, of course they can make mistakes. After all, one let you join ODP .
You may need to work on your editing. I never had a problem gaining new categories to edit, and if you have been an editor for 4 years, you was accepted as an editor before me. You could also apply for other small categories to boost up your editor points before applying for a large project.
Yes, that's what I was told, but then the evidence is there for all to see. Isn't my grammar better than yours?
But the evidence points to you not getting accepted for a larger project, not for getting rejected for other categories.
You mean you have been screwing around? Didn't I tell YOU are my property now! Still someone might think that DMOZ has no need for editors from the way they are treated, they are more interested in getting rid off as many editors as possible then recruiting new ones. Problem starts when person making mistakes refuse to acknowledge them and correct them and act as if he/she was right and no mistake has been done and since DMOZ is totalitarian system in which normal editors have zero rights, there is nothing from stopping such persons from acting that way. (Sure other meta can act but knowing DMOZ speed that usually takes months and years)
Editors can only be removed by a consensus of Metas. One single meta working alone is never able to remove an editor, under any circumstances. That said, I do wish there was an appeal process for removed editors. It could be treated like mediation, but I doubt that will ever happen. When we volunteer we know the rules and we know removed editors won't be heard. If, knowing all this, we decide to join anyway it's kind of hard to complain when the policies we were already aware of are enforced, don't you think? As it stands the only solution is, if you don't like the rules, don't join. Ivan, I know you did a lot of good work, and that work remains. You've made a valuable contribution to your areas, especially with your editing in your language. I'm not a meta so I don't know why you were let go, and I can't find out, but I thank you for your contributions and I appreciate the improvements you made.
From my experience with Croatian wikipedia I know first hand how admins/metas stick together when there are only few of them and they all know each other, basically most of them are keeping there mouth shut and do same work as they did as normal users, rest are bullies and there yes persons. So feel free to call me pessimists but since entire removal process is top secret it is fully open to abuse, corruption, personal vendetta or just good old fashion witch hunt. When you don't have to answer to anyone you can do anything... http://dmoz.org/guidelines/meta/abuse.html#removing Rules forget to mention that everything is top secret and that way even certain annie could be framed for being evil to her doggies and she wouldn't have a single clue about it before cops come knocking to take her to jail. How in the hell can somebody appeal when he/she has know idea why he/she got removed in the first place. Kafka must be very popular with metas. But now all my work is rotting away.
I won't argue your points because I have no knowledge of how things are run in the top sekrit meta forum. I know there's no way now to appeal, I'm only saying that I wish there was a way to appeal. Only some of it. I know how it feels, I've felt the sting of deleting my own work too many times to count. Websites come and websites go. It just happens and it is sad when categories become outdated because of it. Since this is a Webmaster's Forum, I think I'll step up on my little soap box for a minute in case any of these fine people work on sites for Schools.... Why, oh why, do so many schools change the file paths for their websites when they do their website updates? Must the URLs change??? Can't they somehow stay the same or at least redirect? There's always a mad rush every summer to try to find where all the schools (and libraries) have moved to so we can update them and get them listed again. If you MUST change the URL, could you please, please, pretty please make an update to your dmoz.org listing? I'll be quiet now.