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DMOZ Editors: Would you consider starting over elsewhere?

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by NicheDiver, Mar 24, 2013.

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  1. #1
    I have a lot of respect for the original mission of the ODP and the people that have been working on it for so many years. It's been kinda sad to see it not evolve along with the rest of the web. It honestly could be sooo much more.

    As far as I can tell (and please correct me if I am wrong) there aren't any plans in the works to modernize DMOZ so let's suppose that a new project comes along... Not a clone or a script but a completely new take on the old mission built from scratch.

    What would the new project have to be/offer to earn your trust and be worth your time?
    SEMrush
    Also, if such a place were tastefully (lightly) monetized in order to pay for itself, would that offend you?
     
    NicheDiver, Mar 24, 2013 IP
    SEMrush
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #2
    Believe me when I tell you that you don´t want 99% of editors that are still in DMOZ. Corrupt, paranoid, self centered is just few of nasty qualities that comes to mind when talking about these people. ;)
     
    gworld, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  3. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3

    Reading the internal forum is a good way to find the percentage and the editors who post in here are also a good indication. Cry me a river about how Indian and Pakistanis were not nice to you which brings the question why were you telling them that you are an editor, trying to get some business from them? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Mar 24, 2013 IP
  4. chrisranjana.com

    chrisranjana.com Active Member

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    #4
    ODP had its days. The respect ODP commanded during the early days ( 2000 era) was primarily due to the fact that yahoo, google and other search engines were giving undue importance to listings approved by ODP.

    Once yahoo, google etc started to have their own editorial team and data and once ODP listings were not given so much prominence, the decline of ODP started.
     
    chrisranjana.com, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  5. NicheDiver

    NicheDiver Member

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    #5
    gworld, I can appreciate that you have strong opinions about DMOZ and/or its editors but I am looking for genuine discussion here and your comments do nothing but derail my thread and keep me from getting answers.

    I, personally, have never done anything to harm you so please don't try to keep me from the information I came for by hijacking my thread and turning it into an argument that has nothing to do with my original post.
     
    NicheDiver, Mar 24, 2013 IP
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  6. snooks

    snooks Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Im afraid that this type of response is the norm and probably the reason that many Editors wont post. We dont wish to argue, we dont wish to be insulted at every post, but sadly, this invariably happens.

    Personally, i can tell you that I love being a DMOZ Editor, im proud of being an Editor and its truly a great hobbie. DMOZ is being improved daily on a "behind the scenes" level, though i would like to see some cosmetic improvements and stuff like that.

    I just find that editing gives me a break from real life stress and allows me to unwind. I catalogue sites for net surfers to see and use. People say many adverse things, but i can assure you, we have some pretty darm good lists and categories. If you are looking for a Cancer Support Group, you can get that without a single spammy site....hundreds of them the world over and i know for a fact....because i helped greatly doing the cat. If you are looking for Animal Welfare sites, be assured that theres a heap to choose from, because i listed over 800 a year or so ago.

    My home town in Australia is well represented because when i see a shop open, or a new ad in the paper, i tear it out and list the site.

    Thats just a few reasons for enjoying being an editor. If you wish to know more then simply contact me via PM :) We dont always bite (lol).
     
    snooks, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  7. jimnoble

    jimnoble Well-Known Member

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    #7
    Background
    DMOZ is a directory which catalogues websites, not web pages, and is navigated by exploring its category tree or by using its rudimentary search to find a category of interest. DMOZ is not a search engine, tagged or otherwise. Despite claims to the contrary here, the level of spam is much lower than that found in many search engine search results. Like any other broad 'catalogue', it can suffer from link rot but such entries are usually delisted by its robots within a week or so.

    My Motivation
    I'm retired and have plenty of time to indulge in my hobby. I enjoy working at the 'editorface' finding and evaluating websites and maintaining categories. I especially enjoy creating new categories and populating them; these are usually new locality ones because I'm primarily a Regional editor. I'm fortunate enough to be a meta editor and so I also enjoy the man management aspects of the project such as evaluating applications to become an editor (mostly unsatisfactory for one reason or another) and investigating public abuse reports (largely unfounded and lots of spam). I've made quite a few good friends here - some of whom I've met.

    What did you mean?

    I'm not sure what you mean. DMOZ is evolving all the time. The newish back end software is database based (as opposed to working with a gazillion text files) which will ease future enhancements. Sure there are a some bugs but they'll be fixed in time and new editing tools are created almost weekly by our technical editors.

    Did you mean that it should become a search engine? There are already several competent ones around and I don't see the point in inventing the wheel.

    Did you mean its cosmetics should be improved? The original design certainly looks dated but it was intended for use on low bandwidth dial up. It's used internationally and many areas of this planet don't yet have broadband.

    Did you mean it should be monetised? That would probably mean moving away from the volunteer model to one with possibly minimum wage editors. From where would you recruit them? Who would manage them?

    My Conclusion
    I don't need money: I need a satisfying, interesting and challenging hobby - and I found one just over a decade ago. You'd need to offer something even better to persuade me to consider switching horses :).
     
    jimnoble, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  8. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #8
    When a first sentence of a posting is a lie, you can just imagine how much truth is in the rest of it. :rolleyes:;)

    You should take snooks on his offer to PM him privately. From what I have seen of him and how he chases one the metas just to improve his position, I guess he will be open to most "suggestions". ;) :)
     
    gworld, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  9. NicheDiver

    NicheDiver Member

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    #9
    .

    snooks and jimnoble, thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it.

    I guess I meant a little of all of that. (Except the search part. I agree, there's no need to reinvent the wheel.) Thank you for offering an explanation for the antiquated design. It makes perfect sense but there are ways to stay current and still be functional across the globe.

    Also, it helps me to know that there are people making improvements on the back end. From the outside looking in it is easy to assume you all have been abandoned and neglected on every level.

    As for me, I am a programmer exploring a project idea. Nothing more. My research, combined with my inherent geekery, has me wanting to "organize the web" which, as you already know, is a huge undertaking. DMOZ is a perfect example of that in action so it seemed the right place to start poking around.

    Even though the project I have in my head looks and behaves much differently than DMOZ, the mission is essentially the same. At this point I am just trying to determine what I'd want to deliver (experience-wise) to make it something people would want to be a part of.

    The question regarding monetization wasn't an assumption that participants would want to get paid. I just know that the cost of doing this will grow over time and am curious if monetizing it to cover those costs would be offensive to volunteers.

    Again, thank you for your input.
     
    NicheDiver, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  10. snooks

    snooks Well-Known Member

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    #10
    I wouldnt mind if DMOZ displayed one or two small ads to help offset costs, pay server fees etc. But if DMOZ started accepting paid submissions, then like most volunteers i would retire from Editing. Although i once thought paid submissions may be viable, i now see that spending hours and hours editing, whlst someone else benefits financially.......weel, it simply isnt viable.

    Do you know what DMOZ's main problem is? The fact that they were too successful, that people became obsessed with getting listed and all the hype of the so called "magic link", simply because its human edited. This resulted in what we have today, which is a site that recieves thousands upon thousands of suggestions per month and is becoming too large for the volunteer resources that we have. It has become it's own worst enemy by being so successful........But you can be sure that the volunteer Editors will do all they can to ensure it presents the best data possible, in the best possible way.

    I hope and i know that it will continue for many years:)
     
    snooks, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  11. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #11

    I understand, asking for double payments for both DMOZ and editors can become problematic, to say the least. :)
     
    gworld, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  12. seofriend

    seofriend Well-Known Member

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    #12
    the quoted message is the exact behavior you can expect from a person who tired to get himself/his websites on DMOZ and failed numerous times.

    If you really have some improving advice you can e-mail it and that would be taken into consideration , but if you think your posts are going to to make sense to someone you're wrong. because its totally offensive and harassment
     
    seofriend, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  13. Anonymously

    Anonymously Well-Known Member

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    #13
    I would object to ads, it is a slippery slope, many DMOZ editors were offered the chance to be paid for their editing experience and work for BOTW, some of us edit just as a hobby and that is what the project was designed for. We do have many editors who have incredible skills at development and, as I understand it, some of the work now is so that they can use those skills voluntarily developing the DMOZ project. But when we offer no finacial rwards and want to stay that way, we have to accept, as editors that the devlopment and change will be slow.

    Any project trying to work the same model would have o be able to recruit vast amounts, we have thousands, of editors or it would not be human edited. Also because the editors are volunteers and understand that the project is not about the added value a listing might give, that does give editors an independence that commercial sites cannot achieve, in my view. Mixed commercial projects using paid editors and volunteers have been developed, worked well for a trime and then died, witness the project "Zeal".

    One might attract some editors with payment, but most good editors who wanted that went to BOTW, others like myself and Snooks have stated they would leave.

    Having it as a hobby means that some times one wants to bury oneself in the project, but can pull back to the minimum when other things take priority, so it is a hobby and one which over 10 years I have found rewarding, at some periods of my life, more than at others, but I am proud of the work I have done and continue to do.
     
    Anonymously, Mar 25, 2013 IP
  14. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #14

    LOL. At least read some of the thread before you post nonsense. I still have many editor accounts and I can list sites if I wanted but I didn´t do any editing for a long time. To say it politely, you are full of BS. :)
     
    gworld, Mar 26, 2013 IP
  15. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

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    #15
    DMOZ has reached the end of it's evolution. We haven't seen a change in years, like many have said before its the DOS 3.1 of Directory web sites. The company that owns it (AOL) won't acknowledge it but they hope that something will happen to make it relevant once again. It's a Tsunami in one end of DMOZ and a drinking straw out the other end. Just waiting for the plug to be pulled or a way to start a petition to move that effort along.
     
    joeventura, Mar 27, 2013 IP
  16. helleborine

    helleborine Well-Known Member

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    #16
    There is no place on the internet for directories, even niche ones. Bots are so much better than humans.
     
    helleborine, Apr 11, 2013 IP
  17. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #17

    This is not exactly true. Google in many cases good but a lot of time when you search for specific information, the first 4-5 pages is just full of junk from usually the same domains. As Google gets better, so does people who want to fool it. A niche directory that is edited by honest and specialist editors can be a valuable research source.
     
    gworld, Apr 12, 2013 IP
  18. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #18
    From discussing this with editors, supposedly they are updating to a better more up to date model, though it's been years in the making... so I guess it fell flat on its face... or broke, or staff does not really care, or all the above...

    but you are correct, it could be so much more, and they do not need to update the look and feel for it to be so. Communication can go a LOOOOONG way with that. The blog was a start, but just like their upgrade, it too has fallen to the wayside.

    Though if they do ever get around to actually making progress with this it will HAVE to be a clone, and just really scrubbed clean.... at least data/links wise. A few million links would be a pain to readd when they can just dump the few hundred thousand that do not conform to the guidelines ;)


    If it was the ODP I bet many would follow along.

    If it's not the ODP, then well, many did jump ship to join the likes of BOTW and a few others.


    It would offend some, but others are already getting paid... but no editor will acknowledge that they are getting any type of kickback at the moment.

    I also agree with Gworlds last post about Directories ran by honest editors being a thing that could succeed in todays internet. Google results have been slowly turning to trash the last few years, so a few niche resources could certainly come in handy... but honestly, I would not trust the DMOZ editors as a whole based on what I have seen there, and what I have seen here.
     
    Qryztufre, May 4, 2013 IP
  19. Nicholas Pope

    Nicholas Pope Active Member

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    #19
    Hey Snooks I see you have listed your own websites in DMOZ dartshop.com.au how is that fair, I bet that didn't wait in line and I also bet it wasn't reviewed by anyone but you
     
    Nicholas Pope, May 4, 2013 IP
  20. snooks

    snooks Well-Known Member

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    #20
    There is no rule against listing your own site as long as you treat it like any other site and you declare your affiliation with the site. Out of interest i run 10+ sites, but only two are listed in DMOZ because those are the only 2 that meet DMOZ Guidelines.

    You are quite right....i didnt have to wait in line but i guess my 20,000 edits gives me the right to list my own site without waiting. Oops......what the hell am i saying??????.......... I didnt list my site, it was in DMOZ before i even became an Editor. :)

    As with all things DMOZ, if you believe there is an issue of Editorial Abuse, feel free to report it by using our Abuse Report Form.

    And Nicholas.......no more PM's thank you.......
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
    snooks, May 4, 2013 IP
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