DMOZ Corruption according to Google

Two porn webmasters having a spat because one can't get his sites listed and the other does it at will. IMO they are both as bad as one another and neither holds the moral high ground.

I think it is totally wrong from a moral perspective that a DMOZ meta editor, a leader of the community, has multiple (and we are not talking 3 or 4) porn sites listed in DMOZ because of largely unwritten listing practices. Since it is with AOL's full knowledge then it doesn't officially constitute abuse but it shows, IMO, gross errors of judgement to think that this can happen and it won't be perceived as corruption. Even more so given that any other editor working in another branch that had say 50 Shopping sites and listed many of those in the Shopping branch would be ejected before they could say "uh?". So not only is it not comprehensible to anyone looking in from the outside but it appears totally wrong to editors and particularly so to any editor removed for doing something similar elsewhere or even inside the Adult branch.

Gworld has admitted in the past to owning Adult websites and to having been an editor in Adult (presumably removed). You have to therefore at least question his motivations - is he a campaigner for the anti-corruption lobby, or is he upset that he got caught. If the latter then you have to question the credibility of much of what he says though some of it may well be correct. For example he has pointed at sites as being proof of corruption actually going on and when examined the editors who added the sites had been long since removed proving that DMOZ does indeed deal with corrupt editors. Since he still has access to the logs via other accounts he knew in advance of posting that DMOZ had already dealt with the editors concerned and was attempting to mislead. If he would tell it straight and stop twisting things then his credibility would be that much higher.

Not when it comes to this specific editor. It has been reported by numerous people at different times. And been deemed not to be abuse. Hence it is not abuse and no point in reporting it again.

There is a powerful culture within DMOZ that works against change because change requires consensus. Even getting the name of a category changed can and has taken over a year of debate to obtain a majority let alone consensus. If it can take that long to change a word you can imagine the difficulties inherent in anything more tangible. It is a catch 22 because when change is slow people complain but if it is imposed people complain. The simple answer is to put a time limit on discussion and a poll at the end but that has never happened because the ingrained culture is that you keep going until everyone agrees and no poll is required. You may be erring in thinking there is any nefarious intent behind the lack of change - it is far more likely to be simple inefficiency.

 

Part of track covering. Way smarter.

That is smart. Until now (gender removed) still in the RANKS.

 

A bloody stupid way to cover tracks when it leaves you open to being labelled a hypocrit and devalues everything you say. And gworld is smarter than that.

No, stupid. Given he has full access to logs it would have been far more effective to point at obvious abuse where the editor concerned is still serving under the same name (if you are implying the removed editors are still there). Apparently it is that widespread he should have no difficulty doing that. Instead he gives editors an easy and credible answer to the allegation. Stupid.

 

In time brizzie. The other META has expressed it too. Maybe you 3 can be a start of what would be a New DMOZ.

 

The other meta? How many metas have you got writing to you? The first email snippet looks as if it could be genuine - I recognise the style. As to whether there are two metas keeping in contact with a removed editor who says he got back in with another account, it seems a little far fetched. Tell you what, ask them to email me to confirm and I absolutely guarantee their confidentiality 100%. If you are right and it can be confirmed then it throws an entirely different light on many things. If it can't be confirmed then it is frankly worthless hot air.

 

Not correct. All they have to do is an "edit" - changing one word in an existing description of a site satsifies that minimum requirement. Then, like members of our Canadian Senate, they can go back to sleep for another 4 months.

 

If you recognize (gender removed) style. Good for you. As for asking to e-mail you its SUICIDE.

Besides I am bound on Attorney-Client Privelege.

 

No it's not. Suicide for who? You can ask, they can decide if they trust me enough or not. If they do then fine, what you say can be verified. Given my known views on the DMOZ system it is hardly in my interests to betray them. If not then given how unlikely it is, it is worthless. The style in the email snippet is similar to that used by a number of metas - it is meta-speak - not attributable to an individual.

 

Changes? You speak of changes??? Not going to happen. They may change a listing here and there from outside pressure, but the rot and decay of the ODP is too overwhelming to be stopped.

The continued decline in editor activity, coupled with the increasing size of the web, is one large nail in the ODP's coffin.

When Google sees the light, and severs all ties, flimsy as they are at this time, with the ODP, that will be the FINAL and last nail.

We are all looking forward to this blessed event, including, I hear, the ODP itself.

Can you expand? I don't understand your statement.

 

You know and I know that they read here anonymously. If (gender removed) wants to get in touch with you. Its not in my control. But that won't come from me. Worthless or Not it may seem, fact is I still have it in full e-mail.

Maybe (gender removed) like me. I speak the truth. Or maybe can use me in exposing rotten practices Deep Inside.

 

I am not going to betray the confidence of anyone who shares the same views I do. Metas know those views so if these two actually exist and trust me they can confirm what popotalk says. I'm no longer an editor and never likely to be again so I can't buck for promotion by reporting them, and the Admins probably have orders out to shoot me on sight anyway. As I said somewhere else my popularity rating in DMOZ is currently on a par with a fart in an elevator.

What you have given us is a bit of one email that is written in a common meta phraseology and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it is genuine - if a meta is pissed off that an editor was ejected before they had a chance to stop it then I can well imagine them sending such a note. If the rest is not a figment of your imagination then they are welcome to contact me.

 

Thank you for your such faith in me. Assuming that, I am qualified to be a Meta, am I now ?

You think I wasn't surprised too. Look at me compared to you. I was a former low category level and I was contacted ? It seems the trust is on me since I don't change in opinion and constant in my position towards DMOZ and its malpractices.

Like I said brizzie, they read here anoymously even the RZ Gangs are reading here without logging in. Its open why worry ?

If they have shoot on sight order for you. They have sent bounty hunters too track me down.
Don't worry at present the MOST WANTED inside RZ at Editors Only are minstrel, gworld and me. Your name has not appeared yet. Would you like me to elaborate the names of those who posted in that thread?

Actually no. They are still waiting for you to comeback.

 

I have no faith in you popotalk. I have no reason to trust you, I don't know you other than that you got thrown out.

I am reasonably consistent. I don't believe corruption is widespread or systematic at a high level but where it exists in isolation I want action taken. I have a big issue with Adult and the listing practices covering the 0.5% of listings that appear abusive as no doubt you will know from internal threads. I was the one brave enough to open the can of worms last time. I also believe DMOZ has been damaged by maladministration on several occasions. But I am not going to automatically condemn everyone and everything - the vast majority of senior editors are good honest people doing a great job. If something is wrong I'll say I think it is wrong. If I don't think it is wrong then I will say I don't think it is wrong. And finally I am fairly open minded, convince me I'm wrong on something and I will change my views. I wouldn't have started the internal thread on Adult last December had I not listened to people, done my own research, and come to the conclusion that listing practices there were outside guidelines and were giving a bad impression.

I'm not worried at all - you are the one making claims you can't back up and they are incredibly far fetched. But in the interests of being open minded I am happy to be convinced I am wrong and you are right. I could publish email snippets from metas and admins from shortly after I left and edit them to look incriminating. They would be meaningless too without a means to validate them.

The ones doing the waiting are not the ones who do the deciding I was referring to my popularity rating amongst the higher echelons.

 

Thanks again. It is not a close book that I got thrown out. Actually its an open book. Its much better so I can shoot the bad apples OPENLY.

Then be consistent, they still have those and such malpractices. It would never go away as long as there are people on Highest Level trying to use DMOZ for their own Agenda.

Did I say all ? Look I will give sample names of Senior Editors that are honest and hard working. My TOP 5 on list is compostannie, ishtar, shadow, gimmster, sole.

Do you see in my other post when I very much agree with you. But sometimes you are not constant and you have agreed to that. You tend to forget.

Yup. But that is your popularity. They need a leader like you to be vocal on issues.

That is a problem. I don't have access to that point. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe because once you come back it will be chaos.

 

I have a fault - I have always been able to see both sides of most arguments and I will explore both sides before making a decision. Works well in my day job. I also tend to work things out aloud (or on the keyboard) so you may well see a post that is actually my mind ticking over making its mind up rather than the final opinion.

I have another fault - I tend to trust people until they do something to prove themselves not worthy of the trust. Gets me into hot water sometimes so my brain has to engage to correct the tendency. Hence whilst my natural inclination is to believe every word you tell me my brain tells me to require proof because what you are telling me my whole experience with DMOZ suggests it strongly sounds like baloney. So when I look at both sides of that mental conflict I have to go along with my experience with DMOZ. Sorry and all.

As for forgetting, you know when you get to that age when people tell you you've already told that story a dozen times before and you thought it was all new material? I think I reached it. I always wanted the vet to put me down when I reached that point in life when I started a conversation with "When I were a lad..." but they say other than the teeth I still have a while to go before I completely fall apart and end up in a nursing home dribbling whilst sat on a commode.

 

brizzie I think your still be the one who can make a difference in DMOZ. The high level are aging and cannot cope with change. Your views and perceptions I agree most. But putting you back on track will be impossible since they don't want change. Even 1 of them can contact you and invite you anonymously. They are not ready for that.

BTW your hair is not falling apart yet. So your aging and I'm right behind you.
Your not that old.

 

What hair? I find the Captain Picard look sends the women wild.

Don't stand too close, I had beans for supper.

And who can blame them. Your agreement with my views and perceptions is even frightening me. I might have to change my mind again.

 

I see that you are true to your RZ form, If you can not fight the message, fight the messenger.

What is your proof that I have even been an editor in Adult? I actually told you the opposite that I am not.

What is your proof that I have been removed as adult editor? This will be impossible since I never edited in adult.

What is your proof that I have been caught for any abuse? Don't bull shit me about DMOZ secrecy, if you have my editor name then post it.

It does not matter that some editors are removed, who are the owners of those sites, how many other sites they still have in DMOZ? Why those sites are not removed and how many other editors account do they have?

If you don't have any answers, then you can simply admit that your whole post is nothing but typical RZ editors garbage that you posted by habit.

I can even accept everything that you say and agree that I am the worst person on earth, how does that change the fact the abuse and corruption is systematic in DMOZ and it is tolerated with full knowledge of management?

 

Gworld since you're not a murderer, I won't agree with you that you're the worst person on earth, but mabe we can agree you're one hell of a hypocrite. How is your porn sites doing now-ah-days?

Gworld why don't you show any real proof of this systematic corruption in Dmoz instead of your repeating rants?

 

Crossman, please go away and find someone to play with. I can't think of anything you've contributed to a single thread at DP other than to be annoying.