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DMOZ cleanup: Next phase

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by minstrel, May 2, 2006.

  1. EveryQuery

    EveryQuery Well-Known Member

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    #41
    http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Health/Body_Image/Pro-Anorexia/
    http://dmoz.org/Society/Death/Suicide/Methods/
    http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Recreation/Drugs/
    http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Race-Ethnic-Religious_Relations/Race_and_Racism/Supremacy_and_Separatism/
    http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Race-Ethnic-Religious_Relations/Hate/Hate_Groups/Anti-Semitic/

    After reading the listings in some of the above categories, I have lost all faith in humanity. So tell me lmocr, please, what value do you see in listing any of the above in DMOZ? What sort of people do you think will find these sites useful? Your average Joe just because he wants to understand these subjects, or people wanting to participate in these activities? You know the answer. Don't play dumb.
    SEMrush
     
    EveryQuery, May 3, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #42
    This should answer all your questions, PortProphecy. :rolleyes:

    http://dmoz.org/help/geninfo.html

    http://dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html

    ...and this, underscoring why sidjf, lmocr, and others seem to have so much trouble understanding the difference between legality and social-moral responsibility:

     
    minstrel, May 3, 2006 IP
  3. EveryQuery

    EveryQuery Well-Known Member

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    #43
    Very interesting reading there, Minstrel. I was especially intrigued by this:

    My immediate thought when reading this is that ALL those hate sites are immediately disqualified for listing because of the above statement. These sites openly state that all Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, Christians, Muslims, gays, or pick a group must die. And they are openly recruiting members to join them in their cause. But a closer inspection shows how carefully worded this statement is. I guess DMOZ can list them because they are not recruiting people to facilitate the immediate commission of a crime in a specific situation.

    My guess is this how they justify all the illegal drug sites, along with the first quote as well. Sites telling you how to make illegal narcotics aren''t neccasrily distributing them.

    In fact, it seems the entire guidelines you have linked are open to all kinds of interpretation. Who wrote these...a politician? :rolleyes:
     
    EveryQuery, May 3, 2006 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #44
    It is just sad that something that started with a noble idea, ended up with people like lmocr. :(
     
    gworld, May 3, 2006 IP
  5. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #45
    Indeed. I even feel sorry for that horse.
     
    minstrel, May 3, 2006 IP
  6. lmocr

    lmocr Peon

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    #46
    No need to worry, Kupkake, the little pony (not a horse), is quite happy in the pasture with her mom, her sister, and all her friends. :p

    [​IMG]
    Christmas eve - three girls sleeping while mom's watch.
    [​IMG]
    Visiting with the new pony through the fence.
     
    lmocr, May 3, 2006 IP
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  7. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #47
    Sorry I don't know what position you are trying to assign to me; pro-pedophile sites I find immoral. Apart from the perpetrators I can't think of anyone who would not find such sites immoral. And I fully understand that everyone has a personal moral stance - I am against blood sports and gun ownership. There is a line to be drawn though between censorship and complete permissiveness. Currently DMOZ has drawn a line and does not list material that appeals to the prurient interests of pedophiles, regardless of whether they are legal or not. It is not totally permissive in what it lists. Minstrel is suggesting a further redrawing of the line. I have an open mind personally and it is worth discussing. I am not sure how far I would go.

    Guns kill people. Someone sees a web site for a gun shop, goes to the shop and buys one. Kills their wife and kids with it. How much responsibility did the editor have for listing the site. Some say none, people kill people, some say there was a connection. Probability is 99.9% without the listing the killer would have found a gun shop elsewhere. I list a parachute jump site, someone sees it, books a jump, and dies in a terrible accident. How much guilt do I have. Equally some would argue that listing a pro-pedophile site does not cause a kid to be raped because the pedophile would have found the site elsewhere. But DMOZ does now ban such sites, quite rightly. So why are the pro-pedophile sites banned and not the gun shops or parachute jump sites? If you can define the principles that determine where the difference lies in terms of the harm that people could come to as a result of a DMOZ listing then you can start putting types of site on one side of the line or another. Personally I would look at universality, not just majority, that an activity or theory is socially abhorrent. Sites that promote self-harm - not educational sites about the condition or those offering support for people who do this but sites that advocate it as OK. Yes I would say that this would be universally abhorrent and ban such sites. Gun shops and parachute jumps - no, if I was brave enough I would try a parachute jump myself. I wouldn't buy a gun but enough Americans think gun ownership is OK so if I were an editor again I would just decline to list such a site personally and leave it for someone else.
     
    brizzie, May 4, 2006 IP
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  8. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #48
    Thanks for the photos of your family, lmocr.

    I see the problem now. You just have the wrong end of the horse as your avatar.
     
    minstrel, May 4, 2006 IP
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  9. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

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    #49
    Not nice minstrel. I wish people would stop insulting lmocr's horses and ponies. Our animals do become part of the family and lmocr's family looks happy, beautiful and well cared for. Very nice photos. :)
     
    compostannie, May 4, 2006 IP
  10. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #50
    I wasn't insulting the horses. I was talking about lmocr. I think the reason the horses look so happy is that she's not in the photo. :D

    Reminds me of an old joke:

     
    minstrel, May 4, 2006 IP
  11. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #51
    minstrel, Jul 16, 2006 IP
  12. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #52
    I believe this is called Natural selection aka Survival of the fittest (or the fatest depending on how you look at it). :cool:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest

    In plain words if someone is stupid protecting him from his stupidity is pretty much pointless - we had good example over here few years ago:
    http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2001-20.html :eek:
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Jul 17, 2006 IP
  13. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #53
    Without wishing to assign thoughts to minstrel I think he is approaching the issue from the perspective of protecting people with psychological illness from what is apparently known as "trigger" material. Not stupid people but mentally ill people. I haven't checked these latest sites but I did check all the self-harm and suicide ones and some pro-anorexia ones but, with one or two exceptions that I mentioned at the time, I did not see anything that I found insensitive or irresponsible in its treatment of the subject matter. My problem with this topic of social responsibility remains how you define where the line is drawn without the imposition of personal moral values and censorship which is a slippery slope.
     
    brizzie, Jul 17, 2006 IP
  14. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #54
    That is one of the most insensitive and ignorant things I have ever heard. I suppose if someone suffers from schizophrenia or cancer or any other serious illness, your attitude would be "big deal - let them all die"?

    Precisely. These are not stupid people. These are ill and very vulnerable people.
     
    minstrel, Jul 17, 2006 IP
  15. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #55
    Well everyone reads what they want to see, if you dissect my sentences long enough you can probably find enough materiel to prove any theory you want. (and yes I like to eat meat! :p )

    If somebody believes anything he/she reads or somebody tells him without first using his head to think if that makes sense is stupid. In my opinion its better to let both sides speak since otherwise there is more chance that person who got crazy ideas in his head will stumble upon a website that will bring him back to his senses.

    In plain English someone obsessed with anorexia might come looking for pro websites, notice anti and decided to check them out and come to there senses. If pro ones are dropped then he/she'll probably think this is just another of those evil directories part of fat people and McDonald's conspiracy and just Google instead for a website which supports these nutcases. :(
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  16. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #56
    Again, the phrase "come to their senses" betrays your total lack of understanding of the illnesses. Managing ("curing") an illness like anorexia or bulimia, or self-injury, or schizophrenia, or cancer, or anything else is not a matter of "coming to your senses".

    I'm beginning to see that social irresponsibility is only one of the problems in DMOZ. Clearly, ignorance is another very large one. And again, it underscores for me the dangers in looking for or approving editors who do not demonstrate expertise in the areas they edit.
     
    minstrel, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  17. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #57
    There are pro cancer pages and groups???? Oh yeah, tobacco industry...

    I don't edit these categories and have zero interest in them (same as gambling category with which I'm stuck with) and your free to apply and edit these categories as you see fit.
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  18. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #58
    You're missing the point, Ivan. I hope others reading this thread do not.
     
    minstrel, Jul 18, 2006 IP
  19. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #59
    Been a while since this has happened...but I agree with minstrel.

    Ivan Bajlo - you have no idea what you're talking about.

    I'm a firm believer in not protecting the stupid from themselves (I don't think we should have seatbelt or helmet laws for adults). But we are not discussing stupid people, we are discussing people that have mental illnesses.

    Is your theory that we should just let diabetics die because they are too stupid to make insulin?
     
    sidjf, Jul 18, 2006 IP
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  20. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #60
    How did we get from anorexia to diabetes, again??? :confused:
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Jul 19, 2006 IP