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div vs table

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by bilalpakistani, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. lolpasslol

    lolpasslol Peon

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    #61
    <div> is for specific place ,where <table> is difficult or complex to implement.
    actually <div> tag is symbol of smartness or expert.
    it is the right choice of many css expert.
    SEMrush
     
    lolpasslol, Jul 21, 2012 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Humza

    Humza Peon

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    #62
    Div's also make for neater code and easier CSS attributes, table layouts are outdated now completely. This isn't 1990. ;)
     
    Humza, Jul 21, 2012 IP
  3. Rukbat

    Rukbat Well-Known Member

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    #63
    Because if you "develop" a site by using Dreamweaver's "drag & drop", you'll have an improperly developed site. Dreamweaver doesn't produce good code.

    If you write your own code in Dreamweaver's code window, you can get good code, but that's using a jetliner to go to the corner.
     
    Rukbat, Jul 21, 2012 IP
  4. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #64
    Wow, I missed IISouLII's question, but yeah...

    All of it's "wizards" and example templates are horrifically dated at best, disastrously bad idiotic code at worst -- there is NOTHING it can teach you about developing a website properly as it and it's code are chock full of bad practices and worse advice. From the stupid malfing mm_swap javascript BS to do CSS' job, to relying on the preview pane which doesn't even behave like real browsers, even the ones said pane is based on. (Old DW was Opera, new DW is Webkit... and you'd NEVER know it!)

    ... and by the time you know enough HTML and CSS to do things properly, you're using a fat bloated steaming pile of overpriced rubbish as a overglorified copy of Notepad and FTP client... in which case there are plenty of good free text editors and FTP clients out there. The ONLY way to produce good code with DW is to just use it's code view, ignoring the preview pane and actually testing in real browsers -- at which point, well... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?

    There's a reason I say that the only thing about Dreamweaver that can be considered professional grade tools are the people promoting it's use. It's another sleazy half assed shortcut that tricks nubes into THINKING they can make a website.
     
    deathshadow, Jul 21, 2012 IP
  5. WebFerret

    WebFerret Peon

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    #65
    HTML is a markup language used to describe content.

    If your data is not tabular data then it should not be put in a HTML <table> tag.

    Your aim is to write clean semantic code. Don't just use tables because they are 'easier' in terms of layout.
     
    WebFerret, Jul 22, 2012 IP
  6. unity100

    unity100 Active Member

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    #66
    'div' instead of table is more or less a web fad. it came to being during the first days of the web '2.0' era, when the trend was towards very simplistic looking sites which just served a single, understandable and straightforward functionality. this business model was successful, therefore it also carried the 'divs better than tables' mindset forward.

    and it is true in its own element - if you are designing neat, clean, efficient websites with an acceptable low number of elements inside, divs not only give you flexibility, but also are much easier to position and make compatible in all browsers. this is the basis for many 'tables are unprofessional' statements you may see around the internet.

    but.

    there is a certain point where it turns the opposite ..... if, you have to field websites which have to present many different elements and many different functionality in those elements, and the number of elements are considerable, then divs become a liability in two respects - first, keeping track of, and management of the divs and their respective, nested css elements. second, and more important one is, browser compatibility and making it look the same in all browsers.

    inevitably anyone working heavily in the front trenches of web development eventually notices that, if you take it too far, after a certain point, a proper, modern and modular css based design can become unmaintainable just like any normal programming code, and you may end up having to spend as much time trying to implement design changes required by your contract or boss as you are spending time for actual programming code which runs the website or interfaces with database. thats the deal behind the first issue.

    the second issue is a b*tch. there are many devices and platforms today. and, if just one version of a popular browser or any kind of browser + os + device combo interprets something (placement, margin, inheritance, alignment, size, anything) in your code for ANY reason, you may find out that the entire placement and nesting of divs or any functionality attached to them ( toggles, triggers, z indexes, anything) go bust. and you may end up having to debug it for just one freaking platform combo for a considerable amount of time, because of the first issue.

    here is the advantage of tables - tables stay as you have put them, solid and rigid. tables are VERY old, and they are interpreted by almost all browser versions on all platforms exactly as the same as possible. thats because they are freaking old, and their placement does not leave too much room to any misinterpretation. (at least inside a given table).

    and lets face it - ANY page that has over a certain number of elements in it, ends up resembling to be a tabular data more than a neat, clean page. imagine twitter's homepage and logged-in page for users. simple, neat, clean right ? yeah. thats because the number of elements in those pages are just a few. but, if you imagine you just kept adding elements to those pages in your mind, you will see that as the number of elements increase, the pages will turn into tabular data.

    talking about professionalism - professionals do not have time to be elitist over 'divs vs tables'. client's or company's time is money, and things need to be done as fast as possible and as cheap as possible. this is the ugly truth of the production trenches of web development. therefore, professionals use tables whenever the occasion requires them, and divs whenever the occasion mandates them.

    but then again, such is the way with everything in any professional sector ....
     
    unity100, Oct 1, 2012 IP
  7. Rukbat

    Rukbat Well-Known Member

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    #67
    In a div model, you can put the most important parts of the page ("important" as far as page rank is concerned) first. In a table model you have to put everything in the order in which the user should see it.

    Div is much more SEO-friendly. The company's page rank is much more important than the cost of a few dozen hours of development time.
     
    Rukbat, Oct 1, 2012 IP
  8. unity100

    unity100 Active Member

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    #68
    In the end, in both cases you are ending up having to put the most important part of the page first, right ? so there isnt too big a difference of doing it with divs, or tables - you will have to put it first.

    leaving that aside, you are not obliged to use just one model. Actually, the best approach is to use tables to construct the solid, unchanging content areas of your page, and then freely use divs inside them or vice versa - this way, if anything messes up in any given content area, it will very probably be limited to content area.

    as said, no applied science or engineering field is any different - one needs to use whatever situation requires - there can not and should not be a fixed 'philosophy' of doing things.

    arguable. first, around 50% of web traffic is distributed by google if i remember right. that means that the most important factor in search traffic is google. and, google is capable enough to even execute ajax and javascript to index pages now, leave aside differentiating in between tables or divs. moreover, any serious search competitor would not fall behind google in this. so, it should be very well safe.

    in another note, giving too much importance seo at this time and day is a question in itself - panda and penguin updates screwed up a lot of sites, even put some out of business. ive noticed my sites' traffic vary wildly without doing anything in the past few months - which tells me that google has been tweaking and changing a lot of stuff in the algorithms.

    to be honest i pretty much stopped counting on google for traffic. it can change overnight, its too capricious. i wouldnt want to build any business/income through any website relying on google, only to find out that my traffic was cut 50-60% in a google update. its as good as giving one's own butt to a 3rd, private party as custodian - you end up at their mercy.

    im looking towards social, and direct traffic these days.
     
    unity100, Oct 1, 2012 IP
  9. HBz

    HBz Peon

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    #69
    This isn't a debate. Tables are mind-numbingly poor practice, unless it's actually tabular data.

    Yes, CSS require perhaps a bit more experience and knowledge to implement efficiently. Oh well ;)

    And yes, divs are often over-used and abused. Also poor design, little different from the poor design of tables. Don't design poorly, even if you use divs.

    You are right that if you can't be bothered with it, you can get away with tables. You can maintain poorly designed, poor-code-practice products that are still useful from a utilitarian standpoint. Goodness knows, bad code and bad products exist and thrive in all areas of the market. And the web is especially tolerant about bad practice and is very loose with the standards. So yeah, there is a sense of "Who am I really, to tell people not to use poor design practices if they can get by just fine with it and save time and expertise? It's likely never to seriously bite them in the ass, anyway."

    DIVs aren't some fashion statement as part of the web 2.0 era, by the way. The web 2.0 hoopla came way after the concept of 'separation of content from presentation.'

    The bottom line is: if you aspire to do any web design, you ought to aspire to do things the right way. On the other hand, if you are a businessman first who could give two fishes about quality of design, then make whatever decision is sufficient and effective enough for your site. Only don't call it 'professional' ;) It can be as professional a business as they come, but professionally designed websites don't use such bad practice.

    Then again, maybe it's just time to weep for professionalism in web design, period. vBulletin is "industry-class" software with costly licenses and look at them, listing their tabular topic data lists as giant series of floated div-within-divs. Invision Board also has costly licenses, although if they gave you a nickel for every mind-numbingly silly <BR /> tag inserted in its various templates, it'd be better than free.
     
    HBz, Oct 1, 2012 IP
    deathshadow likes this.
  10. usefulfitnesstips

    usefulfitnesstips Peon

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    #70
    usefulfitnesstips, Oct 2, 2012 IP
  11. unity100

    unity100 Active Member

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    #71
    divs vs tables have nothing to do with 'separation of content from presentation'.


    The bottom line is: if you aspire to do any web design, you ought to aspire to do things the right way. On the other hand, if you are a businessman first who could give two fishes about quality of design, then make whatever decision is sufficient and effective enough for your site. Only don't call it 'professional' ;) It can be as professional a business as they come, but professionally designed websites don't use such bad practice.

    Then again, maybe it's just time to weep for professionalism in web design, period. vBulletin is "industry-class" software with costly licenses and look at them, listing their tabular topic data lists as giant series of floated div-within-divs. Invision Board also has costly licenses, although if they gave you a nickel for every mind-numbingly silly <BR /> tag inserted in its various templates, it'd be better than free.[/QUOTE]

    you are right - this isnt a debate. because there is nothing to debate. anyone who did not come face to face with a situation in which their client or boss are pushing for completion of a tight project on a tight budget and time schedule, and had to learn that there is no 'elitism' or 'coding best practices' in business, is not a professional. it is quite easy to talk about philosophies, principles and other type of magic as a part time hobby coder who works on his own websites and hobbies, or someone who is employed in a comfortable position which does not handle much pressure or questions from clients or managers. ironically since a long time ago, majority of the people whom i have seen to blabber about how 'divs rule' and 'tables suck', have been people in such hobby, or comfortable employment positions.

    or, people who are new to the workforce, fresh out of college, or in college. and naturally they have a huge enthusiasm of being 'professional', and they have philosophies and ideals and whatnot regarding how things should be. normal. all of us have gone through such stages.

    only when someone is doing REAL professional work in a responsible position and ends up having to answer tough questions of 'when' and 'how much' and tries to respond with stuff like 'philosophy', 'best practices', 'professionalism', 'aspiration' and sees that they dont fly, then s/he learns what the real deal is.

    in the real world time is money. and money makes things possible. period.

    therefore experience and talent is best used in places which it will actually make a difference - name your pick, from engine to user interface to anything else. so, as long as what you present to user is as you intended, there is no difference in between a div and a table.

    divs and tables are part of web technology. whatever does the job at any given point in time, you use it.

    and let me define what professionalism is :

    Professionalism is making things happen within budget and schedule.


    .
     
    unity100, Oct 2, 2012 IP
  12. HBz

    HBz Peon

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    #72
    They have everything to do with separation of content and presentation. As some else said above, tables lock you in to a certain order of things. Content is structure, not layout-defining, which tables are. Not to mention it's semantic garbage - because instead of headers and footers you end up with...<TD>s and <TD>s.

    Granted, DIVs don't guarantee separation of content and presentation either. <DIV class="span250px"> or <div class="bluebackground"> or <div class="displaytablecell">, I don't know, there are all sorts of ways to muck it up. And the bigger issue with tables is semantics, because 'the entire content of your site' sure as heck isn't a table data cell.

    See, I think what you're basically saying, is that it's too hard / takes too long / is too much trouble. I just do not believe this to be the case. At any rate, and I hope you do not find this offensive, but I am unimpressed by the "When you work on a tight schedule, you have to be sloppy" argument. Maybe. But to tout that as a standard?

    Professionalism is having the expertise to do the job you've been hired to do, dangit. An amateur-level programmer might stick magic numbers or pointless inefficiencies or maybe even dangerous code everywhere because he either doesn't know any better, or can't be assed to develop good practices. His mess of code might very well be 'functional', and keep him employed. But he can't say "I'm on a timeline" and then call that 'being professional.'
     
    HBz, Oct 2, 2012 IP
  13. unity100

    unity100 Active Member

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    #73
    no, they dont have anything to do with separation of content and presentation. regardless of whether you use tables or divs, your content still comes from your database, and then you will need to place your content in your divs or your tables. even if you go totally haywire and dont use anything and just print your content in between mere <body> </body> tags, your content and presentation are still separate.

    thats where everyone misses the real deal - whatever you do, a web page is still a 2d medium. and as the number of elements presented in that webpage increases, you will eventually go towards an appearance which resembles a very crowded newspaper page. rectangular, tabular looking elements sprinkled one after another in between each other.

    and to this date, i havent seen any busy website which tried to present their elements in oval, star-shaped, geometric fashions instead of using rectangular inserts. for good reason of course, because the visitors would get confused.

    you can just try - just keep inserting elements into a page. it will become tabular.

    money doesnt care about philosophies. unfortunately money fuels our society. and until this changes, philosophies wont matter. unfortunate, but reality.

    try telling a time/budget constrained manager that you 'dont want to be sloppy' and you want to 'keep your coding philosophy'. noone gives a ****. and not because they are not evil people - its because everyone have to run on tight leashes which tied to money.

    that is leaving aside that there is nothing 'sloppy' about tables. especially in the day and age of zillions of mobile platforms with zillions of oses and browsers and other kinds of kinks, something that stays the same in EVERY kind of imaginable platform combo is something that is godsend. if one is wise, s/he uses this godsend tool to save time and money for his/her clients and company. especially in a recession like this.

    professionalism is not spending time on something that can easily be handled by something which is perceived 'less elite' and 'bad coding philosophy' and instead spending that time for dangerous code you speak about. because the latter matters, and noone gives two shizz for the former but coders who take it as an elitism issue.
     
    unity100, Oct 2, 2012 IP
  14. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #74
    and that has WHAT to do with it being tabular data, where the rows and columns have a structured relationship? Much less, WHICH medium -- that's the part people miss; if you are thinking what the page looks like for your one magical combination of resolution and medium when you are writing your HTML, you are COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT OF HTML!!!

    Saying what things ARE, NOT what they look like. Sure, the data may be formatted as rectangualr tabular LOOKING elements for ONE of your media targets -- but what does that have to do with Aural? Print? Handheld with a different layout? Can that table magically switch between one, two and three columns for responsive layout?

    Just because it looks tabular on one target at one resolution does NOT make it tabular data -- AT ALL. If you're going to use tables for that justification you might as well go back to writing HTML 3.2 with FONT, CENTER, BGCOLOR, and all the other outdated asshattery. (or jump on the HTML 5 BS wagon with it's allegedly semantic and entirely pointless new tags)... though of course, most of the sleazeball asshats out there crapping out websites ARE still basically writing HTML 3.2, and then either slapping a 4 tranny or 5 lip-service on it -- having never grasped the concepts or reasoning behind 4 STRICT, separation of presentation from content, or the dozen other improvements of the past decade. See why there are idiots out there DUMB ENOUGH to see merit in HTML 5, or as I call it, "The new Transitional" -- nothing like being in 'transition' from 1997 to 1998 coding practices.

    ... and when maintaining proper separation means FASTER development, easier to maintain code (since there's less markup and style can be held consistently/easily), and most importantly -- it's more accessible as you're targeting more than just that magical resolution you happen to have chosen?

    It is sloppy coding, it is harder to maintain in most cases, and it most certainly is a steaming pile of accessibility /FAIL/ because it most always means writing the HTML to just one appearance, instead of the many appearances properly written websites should provide.

    Though if all one is doing is sleazing out a fixed width with px metric fonts sending the same CSS to all media targets giving a flying purple fish about accessibility -- such concepts are probably outright alien.

    That's not elitism... that's doing the job properly instead of just sleazing pages out any old way and hoping the client is too ignorant or stupid to know the difference.

    Seriously, if you don't know what's wrong with:

    
    <td width="auto" style="text-align : center; vertical-align :top;">
    </td>
    <td width="960" style="text-align : left; vertical-align :top;">
    <br>
    <div id="container">
    <div id="lside">
    <div class="hslice" id="ngg-webslice">
    Code (markup):
    Do the world a favor, back the **** away from the keyboard, and take up something a bit less detail oriented like macramé.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
    deathshadow, Oct 3, 2012 IP
  15. unity100

    unity100 Active Member

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    #75
    a webpage is a structured presentation. it is curious that you can even propose that elements in a webpage may not have a structured relationship. i dont see a login box flying to the opposite place with every page or a comment box constantly shifting to another location with every other page in any website. or content area, or other elements. they remain in the same places. they have to. this is so for ebay this is so for google.

    a webpage is a structured presentation - even if you change the structure on occasion.

    handheld, print, aural this that. yes, tables can switch 'magically' to 3 column layout or 2 column layout just like how you can make divs switch by using html and css, depending on the conditionals you put. in the end, divs are not doing that magically by themselves either - you are coding what you need to have happen through css and html. they dont just 'know' what to do.

    let me let you in on a secret : if its necessary for making something happen in the desired budget and timetable, i will write html 3.2, i will use FONT, CENTER, BGCOLOR, and even blinking netscape text.

    just like any other professional.

    and just like any real professional knows, customers, clients and users do not give two ****s about any of the coder-insider worries and elitism and perceptions you have so politely outlined in your above block.

    annoying as it may be, it is the state of matters in the society we currently have.

    there is nothing relevant to separation in regard to divs vs tables. both are elements of presentation. and moreover, i have had to work on various pile of craps which people who wanted to go 'all the way' on what you are trying to propose here, ending up in a huge pile of sh*t of infinitely nested style, html elements which required considerable effort as if THAT was the code that is running the entire 100,000+ product populated ecommerce store, and not the real code running in the background itself.

    no, they werent 'sloppy' coders. they were good coders. they just got too caught up in 'the proper way' to do stuff, and just kept adding and adding and adding, ending up in a huge pos for people to maintain it. it was very beautiful css code too, mind that.

    but just like any other code, it became unmaintainable after getting bloated due to having to put many elements on a website - and they had to bail out of the client. so much that when you tried to add a new element, the pages would go haywire in some other point or the other. aural, print, handheld ? ? the website wasnt even appearing properly in everyday browsers and platforms. all because of that crap.

    you know what fixed that ?

    tables.

    that is elitism. that is as elitism as 'xml will save the day' and it is as elitism as 'semantics' and 'iframes are evil' and all the other crap that has come and passed until now and will come and pass in the future.

    what happened to xml ? all the data on the web was going to be presented in that format. it was big !!

    and iframes !!! it was a biiiiiiiig sin to ever use them in any website REGARDLESS of what you were trying to do back 10 years ago. a lot of people were blabbering just like these 'tables are evil' people whenever someone mentioned an iframe.

    and what happened ? facebook came, shoved everything in iframes, and all those 'professionals' just shut up. what happened to make iframes less evil ? if iframes are still 'evil' (due to many reasons apparently), why the hell noone is speaking against them here and there, blabbering against their use now ?

    let me tell you the reason why - because noone gives a **** about what those people think.

    the outside world, customers, clients, do not give two sh*ts about our coder elitism, philosophies, desires. and that is how it should be.

    and seriously, if you havent come across what i have explained before, back the **** away from keyboard, take up something a bit less detail oriented like origami, and leave professional work to professionals - 'professionals' being people without childish fixations, being able to get stuff done in proper time and budget instead of firing off a bunch of swear words and supposedly derogatory adjectives towards people who are perceived as doing something 'less kitsch' or 'philosophically correct'.

    tables are a part of web technology. you use them whenever you need them. just like ANYthing else. that's it.
     
    unity100, Oct 3, 2012 IP
  16. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #76
    Wow, that is the most ignorant thing I have EVER heard from the lips of a web developer. Because of course writing more code (which presentational markup is pretty much guaranteed to be), failing to properly leverage caching models (resulting in slow pages and increased hosting costs), failing to provide neutral hooks for responsive layout, styling inline you can't override easily when/if it comes time to reskin or again, make responsive layout or target specific media devices, and in general pissing all over accessibility is "professional".

    I get a real laugh whenever someone says that outdated, half-assed broken code we've been told not to use for over a decade is 'better' or 'easier' or even 'faster'... Because to be frank, that's talking out one's ass about something you probably never took the time to learn to use... Which is why you're most likely probably still coughing up 100k of markup for 3k or less actual content and a dozen content images -- doing the job of less than 10k of markup and a equal amount of CSS.

    But sure, more code with all the presentation inlined is 'simpler' and 'easier to maintain', much less accessible -- RIGHT. Tell me another one, Josephine!

    At best, sounds like ignorant nonsense, at worst you're preying on the ignorance of the clientèle.

    Much of your post is gibberish and/or stuck in the '90's, but this really stood out:
    A real laugh since I usually end up having to clean up half-assed outdated tags and hundreds of K of code for what I do in a fraction that, with inaccessible non-semantic markup. Of course, given the rubbish code I'm used to seeing in e-commerce stores where people seem to think that a H2, P, two span and one DIV with a class on it needs to be 20 tags with 40 classes AND inlined presentational tags, I suspect we're both used to dealing with idiotic bloated garbage.

    DIV's provide no semantic meaning, and should only be used as a presentational 'hook'. TABLES provide a semantic meaning, and are handled differently by different user agents... like screen readers... Stripping style off tables or changing the layout without changing the markup is unreliable cross browser, meaning you can't reliably do responsive layout with them...

    ... and you have heard of responsive layout, right?

    oh, and I still bitch about iframes since the proper tag is OBJECT -- but then I'm against HTML 5's AUDIO and VIDEO tags since they too are redundant to OBJECT; when the majority of developers can't be bothered to use the tags we already had in 4 STRICT properly if at all, throwing more tags at the specification is NOT the answer.

    Like the idiots I see doing this rubbish: (assuming it's actually a table)
    <td class="title" colspan="6"><b><font size="+1">Table Title</font></b></td>

    Since that's most likely a CAPTION...

    or this idiocy:
    <td class="heading"><b>Last Post</b></td>

    Since that's a TH

    Or the idiots who use single TD per TR tables, single TD tables, etc, etc... It's why (siding with you slightly) I say much of the problem with tables for layout wasn't actually the use of tables, but the overuse by people who didn't know how to use them properly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
    deathshadow, Oct 3, 2012 IP
  17. unity100

    unity100 Active Member

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    #77
    you seem to be in need of learning proper debating manners, more than debating what random html element is good to use for what. someone who is still calling people 'idiots' , or girls names, cannot stand up and talk about 'professionalism'. you dont even know how to properly talk in public.

    'josephine' is interesting. it is supposed to be derogatory name i presume. and why someone being or not being female can possibly be derogatory, escapes me - unless you for SOME reason think it is derogatory to be female - then i'd be sorry for your family.

    and see, the world doesnt give two sh*ts. since there are bazillions of sites with facebook like or comment frames on them, it means they work well and proper. so, just keep at it. and the world also keep at what it is doing.
    ...........

    i will cease discussing with you at this point, since you dont seem to be able to keep civil while talking with people. i will also stay away from you in further threads, because of your improper conduct. if i see your behavior change, i may change my opinion.

    still, thank you for participating until this point.

    i will also let go of discussion since what is necessary has already been told, and there is no point in repeating them over and over. thanks everyone.

    ah, and a final word for newbies :

    Dont hesitate from using anything because some crowds think it is not 'elite' enough. get the job done.
     
    unity100, Oct 3, 2012 IP
  18. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #78
    While your lack of literary knowledge, history and the topic at hand seems to be far more trollish -- as evident by your inability to actually argue the point, and instead kneejerking into "wah wah" about how it has been said to you by multiple people.

    That you're unaware of certain vernacular is then no surprise either -- admittedly, referring to Marie Josèphe Rose Tascher de la Pagerie with the classic (though incorrect) Napoleon quote could be considered obscure, but if it's good enough not just for Lenny and Squiggy back in the '70's, and even Blackadder or Red Dwarf... I know, I know.... If you have to explain the joke...

    ... and if your going to do the job, do it right, do it complete, and make sure it's actually accessible, maintainable, and functional to as many targets as possible, using as little code as possible. The less you use, the less there is to break.

    Something sleazing out HTML 3.2 and tables for layout isn't going to do.
     
    deathshadow, Oct 3, 2012 IP
  19. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #79
    Oh, BTW, when something is idiotic, you call it idiotic... when something reeks of ineptitude, you call it ineptitude; Ignorant inept idiocies like using 76 bytes of presentational code to do 30 bytes of semantic markup's job... or 41 bytes of outdated rubbish to do 18 bytes semantic markup's job... while at the same time pissing all over accessibility and search -- and then somehow claiming it's "easier".

    The adage "if you can't say anything nice" being a cop-out for thin skinned "status quo FTW" types who generally know about as much about progress as they do fornicating.

    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw

    "When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag. ... As for the types of comments I make, sometimes I just, By God, get carried away with my own eloquence." -- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.

    Words to live by.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
    deathshadow, Oct 3, 2012 IP
  20. wilsonn

    wilsonn Peon

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    #80
    Div coding is better for compare to table tag why means Div coding structure is looking simple and nice compare to table coding.
     
    wilsonn, Oct 4, 2012 IP