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Directory PR Adjustments

Discussion in 'Directories' started by CReed, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. workshop

    workshop Guest

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    #161
    Nasty nasty. Just sharpened your teeth have you? Whose blaming anyone? I am just saying that Google has you all in a flutter. You know why Aviva is taking a knock. I know why they are taking a knock. So lets just agree to disagree. No need to get unpleasant.SEMrush
     
    workshop, Oct 25, 2007 IP
    SEMrush
  2. jhnrang

    jhnrang Notable Member

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    #162
    Actually, just preparing to get nasty- and you pour cold water:(

    Well, its not about only aviva, so why do you have to cite only that directory?:rolleyes:

    Few days back, I asked you to come out of the Aviva hypnotism and to look at the greater world than your Alive/Aviva hate world.

    Open as many browser as you can and check the PR of as many sites you can. Tell me - is it only about those you love to hate or its wide-spread ---beyond the directory world?:rolleyes:

    As far as I am concerned its a WWW phenomenon, --Google has changed its algo as I have been telling for the last 3/4 months and all sites are getting adjusted with the new algo.

    Do you have problem to accept this fact and stop your non0sensical bashing of certain directories without obvious reasons?

    Thank you.
     
    jhnrang, Oct 25, 2007 IP
    discover likes this.
  3. dargre

    dargre Peon

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    #163
    A kind of people having fun and being happy of someone's trouble.
    This is worst kind of people we can ever meet. Beware of them.
    I don't know even if we should call them people as they act more like ANIMALS.

    I don't care directories or even websites.
    I'm too old for that. Have enough good life position not to be fraightened of anything happenned on Internet.
    Also I'm enough independent to have my own opinion.

    But what I see on this forums just horrify me a lot.
    There's no place for sharing opinions. There's only HATE and VENOM.
    This leads to nowhere. This leads to disaster.

    workshop you're brainless ANIMAL, I would say more - you're a CANNIBAL.
    However, I'm sure, you're be the first victim of your own HATE.

    I have no pleasure to discuss with such people.
    People of poor knowledge, not able to do or write anything conctructive.
    People without honour, people ready to sell their SOUL for 3 cents.
     
    dargre, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  4. workshop

    workshop Guest

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    #164
    Most of the people I speak to believe that this started with a targeted hatchet job on the members of this forum and yes everyone agrees that Google is changing the way it does things. But the fact that they used Aviva and Alive as their guinea pigs does not absolve them from the responsibility of orchestrating the biggest upset this industry has ever seen.

    The only question that remains is whether we are going to learn from this or whether we will call the guys from Google back for an unwanted encore?
     
    workshop, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  5. LakeCountry

    LakeCountry Well-Known Member

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    #165
    Do you really think that Google pulled as the out of their ass last month. This is my opinion, but I'm sure Google has had these plans on the drawing board for a LONG time..probably before some of these directories even existed.

    I think it all started with the washingtonpost.com for selling links and that pissed Google off...or maybe it was that financial site..Forbes.com that appears to have lost a chunk of PR also....let's blame them ....it's all their fault:mad:
     
    LakeCountry, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  6. workshop

    workshop Guest

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    #166
    I also believe that they have been planning this for awhile, that they have been warning us and that we ignored those warnings. At the same time I also like to think that it was a targeted hit and that directory owners who did a public about turn reaped the benefits. But maybe that's just wishful thinking and taking things a step too far.
     
    workshop, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  7. LakeCountry

    LakeCountry Well-Known Member

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    #167

    Not real sure about the benefit of a "public turnaround" is easy to give lip service to Google and come here and say "I have repented from my evil ways" . Not trying to put anyone one the spot but a regular here has been talking about all the changes he/she has made and is going to make which as well and good but I haven't noticed any change in the site myself as far a TBPR and Serps.

    I'm not going to start proclaiming anything myself till the dust settles and we have a better understanding of things. While I will concede to making certain necessary changes as far as Google is concerned, I'm refuse to become a slave to their every whim or jump through hoops every time Matt Cutts coughs. While I consider Google important, they are not ALL important...at least to me;)
     
    LakeCountry, Oct 25, 2007 IP
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  8. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #168
    Everyone knows how the page rank have been devalued for directories. Having some arguments and disagreements from both camps, how can we provide good answers to the future subscribers or who wants to get a link from directories ? Directories are still a good source of information , backlink, traffic and many more for new and old websites. Question is to provide good information for submitters. Here are my few questions to directory owners and I hope they can answer truthfully without being one sided or something like saving grace for friends or acquaintances.

    Page Rank:


    Since most directories have been devalued in its Page Rank would a link that cost $30 to 100 dollars still be worth it ? If a subscriber buys a link from a directory that have a PR3 Page Rank would that cost be worth the money ? A penalised directory with such an amount would it be worth the price ?

    Traffic:

    If a penalised directory isn't cached or link details or pages does not show on search engine as backlink would it be worth to submit to this directory ? Even if the prices are way off the mark now. If you were a subscriber would you buy a $100 uncached link rather than a PR0 website with a cached page of a price like $3 ? Which would be your choice ?
    The industry needs to restart itself and pick up the pieces. How would the owners do this ?

    There are more questions that needs to be answered as submitters such as SEO companies which does not include the individuals, how can their money be justified for this if the value has decreased. What would some owners do ? Should we adjust our pricing ? I know some owners spent a fortune for promotion before but like in business there are time that we should cope with the pricing did the owners have thought about price adjustments and have they considered that ?

    Please no flaming wars be reasonable as I too have some new sites needed to be submitted and have submitted them to some already.
     
    popotalk, Oct 25, 2007 IP
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  9. mikey1090

    mikey1090 Moderator Staff

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    #169

    This could be a useful discussion. Its more relevant to flat fee directories as we know traffic on a bid directory is dependant on the bid.

    PageRank

    I feel we should wait for google to update the rest of the internet. At the moment it seems those selling/buying links faced a drop in PR. PageRank 6 went to 4, 5 went to 3.

    If it was an algorithm change and not a "were gonna take you down a peg or two buddy and make your PR selling business suffer" scenario, the rest of the internet may too face a drop. If this is the case, PR4 will be like the new PR6 and sites will still submit to PR4 web directories the same way they used to submit to the PR6 sites.

    If this does happed, and PR4 is like the new PR6, those who sell PR wont have to change their prices.

    If this is not the case, people wont submit to web directories. $100 for a PR2 backlink will be a total waste of money for the PR chasers.

    As for traffic, I cant see many people paying more than $5 for a couple of hits a month. There are many ways to get traffic for free, so unless your directory is a major traffic driver, i doubt you can charge a fortune for it.

    Those whose fee is largely proportioned for the review and editing of the submission, the price will not need to change much.


    I feel the best way forward is to adjust your prices according. If you are market driven, watch rival directories and see what they do. if you are product driven and PR matters, you may need to adjust them.
     
    mikey1090, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  10. jg123

    jg123 Notable Member

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    #170
    Unfortuanetly because much of what Gooogle does is secret we won't really know the results. When they export toolbar data it might be from a snapshot done 6 weeks ago so we won't know how the drop in PR has effected the wider array of sites linked from these ones. Or like it has been suggested maybe the toolbar downgrade is visual only and internal PR has been maintained.

    So far all the research into SERP of these affected sites seems to say they have not been hurt in rankings, so it will be tough to draw any conclusions from the PR downgrade alone.

    I guess it could all just be a mistake? Might be wishfull thinking on my part but I still don't see the logic to all the madness. Like Mike said above me if PR4 is the new PR6 then folks will probably just chase those numbers. And if Gooogle missed a few hundred thousand sites that also sell links and only sent out this 'clear' message to a few hundred then the few hundred thousand will be able to milk the market for some serious paid links bucks over the next few months.
     
    jg123, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  11. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #171
    Thanks Mikey and I really need to know also what other owners like you think as we have discussed that as directory owners we all stick to where the industry goes for the best.

    There are submitters at this time and some owners or the most part are receiving submissions ? For us owners to wait for the update which don't know when is not a good thing for our individual clients at real time they see the value of our directories. What should owners do ? Lets say Client A submits now and sees the PR of the site is PR3(Homepage) and the price is $35 is that ok ? Inner page would be like 2 or 1 or none at all. If we are going to satisfy our clients do we need to do adjustments now and make another after the update ?

    I mean this is not a bad thing isn't it ? I am sure if a submitter sees a $100 link for a PR2 uncached page they would surely not do it right ? Or would you ? Thinking as a submitter. Because even for us owners we are thinking that way too. If you have a new website you would submit to let say Skaffe rather than spend on a penalised directory for $35 right ?

    Thanks Mikey.
     
    popotalk, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  12. DownUnder

    DownUnder Well-Known Member

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    #172
    q1, would it still be worth it, I see no real issue prices change every day on many products, worth is attained at the point of sale and judged by the buyer at that time, and not what happens prior or preceeding an event.

    Last week i could have bought a digital telly for 4K this week they can be bought for 3.5K due to the value of the $

    and i am sure everyone has bought a product then found it the following week on special, none of us feel ripped, but wished we had waited.

    I see this question another in that PR is a pointless figure to worry about in that who knows what it will be next week ?

    more to that i would look at a directory in a more traditional sense of, is this directory well presented and run, does it cover the market / area i wish to promote my product in and is the cost of that promotion value for my advertising $ based on expected returns.
     
    DownUnder, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  13. jg123

    jg123 Notable Member

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    #173
    Because of the nature of a free-market it will be the market that decides the prices. But I agree that jumping your prices around based on what Gooogle may or may not be doing is not a smart move. Best to wait and see the dust settle then make an informed business decision, if your submissions have declined significantly and you think it is because your page rank has went down you will have to decide if lowering your price is part of your personal business plan.
     
    jg123, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  14. an0n

    an0n Prominent Member

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    #174
    Sounds to me like you are still basing the selling point of a link on PR.

    Ask yourself; Does my directory get traffic? Do I actually do the reviews? How much of my time is at stake and has been put into in my directory? and then answer your question as to whether or not a price is justified. Don't base it on PageRank. Some people put more effort and work into their projects than others. Some just pay other people to do the work for them.

    Still though, this is obviously part of the problem that still exists and let us hope, that along with your supposed 'reformed changes' you aren't still basing a price on selling PageRank, but actually basing it on what you put into your directory.
     
    an0n, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  15. aspire

    aspire Well-Known Member

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    #175
    Has the PR gone up for any of the sites for anyone at the forum
     
    aspire, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  16. LakeCountry

    LakeCountry Well-Known Member

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    #176
    Good points and great questions guys. I feel as long as PR exist some will continue to think it's important and chase it. The average webmaster probably doesn't visit forum like this or at least read this section often and most certainly have never heard of Matt Cutts so to some of them PR will remain highly prized .

    From my observation and the sites I have looked at have had a PR drop of -2. So after the initial shock wears off a PR5 site will be looked at like a PR7 site is now.How much a listing will be worth depends on if this is just some sort of " leveling out" of PR across the board. If Google does that and doesn't change anything else I don't seeing much changing.

    I can't help but think many people that submit to directories do so for the backlink and any traffic we may provide. I have lots of submissions in cats and subcats with little or no PR so they can't be submitting for that. Of course my fees have always been relatively low which may have contributed. As long as I can provide good backlink that will help sites in the serps and indexing I really believe I will continue to get submissions regardless.

    Another thing that I feel is important is educating everyone in our sphere of influence as to the role of directories in the grand scheme of the internet. The better educated people become, the more trust acceptance as a vital part we will become. Now I don't mean yelling and preaching to everyone but when asked a simple question , answer with the simple truth...works every time.

    Despite all that is going on right now, I'm still planning to build a new directory. I'll be doing some things differently this time, like not chasing PR for one ( yep, I'm guilty. I was one of those evil PR chasers). Not sure what all I'd like to do yet but some ways for my visitors to interact more and offer something more than simply a bunch of categories and links.......BTW, I'm open to new ideas.
     
    LakeCountry, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  17. mikey1090

    mikey1090 Moderator Staff

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    #177
    Like i said it depends how you market your directory, and what exactly you are selling. If you think PR matters for a submitter - which it probably does, we have to consider what is accpetable price.

    The directory industry is unique, not like others. When someone buys a car, they usually buy one. Factors like price, quality, brand etc are main considerations. However, like mentioned in a previous thread, when someone begins submitting to paid directories they dont stop at one. If we all work togethor and find a good balance in the market it could work well and help us to establish just how much a submitter is prepared to pay. This data could then help us adjust our prices further to suit the customer and keep them returning if we offer value for money.

    If a submitter likes your low prices and you offer a lot, they may submit more. Almost every webmaster i know has more than one site that they market, so 1 submitter has the potential to become 10 if your prices suit them.

    Whilst we should all agree on what prices suit what quality directories, we should be careful. Price fixing is illegal (in the UK anyway) and should not be done.

    Those who state they are charging enturely for a review shouldnt be changing prices. Those who do change prices will hopefully be changing to suit the customers opinion of value for money, not adjusting prices due to PR changes.
     
    mikey1090, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  18. floppydrivez

    floppydrivez Peon

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    #178
    No, there has been no official update for anyone (not just directories or this forum). I think Google is still in the hand editing/penalty stage.
     
    floppydrivez, Oct 25, 2007 IP
  19. Fahd

    Fahd Well-Known Member

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    #179
    I think google is basically saying that these directories are quite worthless and don't deserve the high PRs they attained by buying large amounts of links.
     
    Fahd, Oct 25, 2007 IP
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  20. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #180
    I think they are and I am very happy for them.


    My SEO company usual submitter has sent me an e-mail regarding the matter of page rank. It seems that the current PR of my sites does not reflect the price and I told him that I will get back at him in a few days. I was only thiking that I should satisfy my clients thats all.
    Thanks for a nice answer Lake Country.:)

    @mikey
    Wow. Glad to know that changing prices is not legal in the UK.


    And no I don't chase PR nor Traffic nor any of this SEO Bullcrap anymore. I will even declare one of my sites FREE submitions again in a matter of days.
     
    popotalk, Oct 25, 2007 IP