Directory Owners seem very slow to learn how to protect their own Directory Market

That's one way of looking at it, but are you really worried about those people? Businesses fail all the time, for many reasons, and just because you play by the rules or follow the guidelines, doesn't mean you'll be successful.

But as Jim4767 points out, '3rd party ratings' are common in business - ever hear of ISO certification? These are best practices that businesses can follow that lend credibility to the business when they get certified. This level of certification goes beyond what I was suggesting, but it might be a step in the right direction.

I don't know that an ISO-certified company that went out of business would say, "But we were ISO certified!" If they did, the comeback could always be, "Yeah but your product still sucked."

 

I disagree with that statement, and simply not ranking your directory listings by pagerank'ing or publishing 3rd party rankings in your directories is a huge step forward.

This case is much different because the 3rd party doing the ranking has something to gain by ranking sites in this niche poorly. That would not be tolerated in the bond market.

 

Well i can speak for myself only and on at least 2 occasions i was very offended when the suggestions were made in a thread.

My own modesty means that i never, no matter what im involved in online would see myself as a "biggie" the "big guys" so i choose quite specifically to categorise myself and my directories as another of the general many that are out there.

As i pointed out at that time, that nobody forced anyone to spend money, i would say that any "biggies" would be damn lucky not to have a mass of complaints from the submitters when suddenly their top ten directories were not able to pass on what was expected.

It would be insane for any established directory to suggest that a lesser established directory was to blame for anything, was feeding off them or anything else.

THe more established directories often promoted themselves as able to feed anyway.

So any suggestions that the established directories supported and kept the newer ones doesn't really hold any weight.

 

Pete, I agree to an extent, in that we shouldn't as directory owners be promoting or using such tools to rank our directories.

The problem is however that a large extent of our customer base do use such tools to value us, so unless we have an alternative to offer them, this problem will never go away.

 

Its simply naive to think that you can somehow step outside the line though, that removing those things would make a significant difference, it may be a case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

yea but I think the submitters are as much to blame
"you cant buy" pr was what googles message was and they went against this and submitters got caught up in it
the longer it went on the more webmasters who wouldnt have initially submitted thought maybe it was worth while
it was getting outta control but those at the top made a lot of money no doubt

 

I agree, absolutely, as a submitter myself i hold my hands up and admit to being caught up in past trends too.

Submitters were as much a part of the problem as were directory owners, it kept the fire going.

 

and me also btw

 

I built BungeeBones exactly for that reason, so that webmasters can take control of the market.

There are so many directories on the web, all little ones trying to "make it big" so that they can reach the traffic level high enough to demand an advertising or "inclusion" fee.

My approach at BungeeBones is to ask webmasters to work together. Let's pool our resources (our websites) and join them together so that they can then provide enough traffic to demand advertising fees.

I not only supply the directory script but also the human editing, the updating, and payment. All a webmaster needs to do is supply the web site real estate (i.e. a web page).

I know, this posts sounds like a self serving ad but that is what everyone esle is doing. It is the marketplace after all.

 

BungeeBones...this is not quite the best place and moment in time to promote your directory or whatever it is.... Please try next door in the Solicitations % Announcements section of the forums.

Now back on topic...

I've had a look at every single post on this thread several times...

Protecting the industry and educating the eventual submiters in not an easy task. Fighting against a huge corporation is even harder and not sure if is the right thing to do.

It is obvious that what is happening on the internet right now is a sort of dictatorship when someone dictates the rules and you'll have to follow. Of course they say who doesn't agree is free to leave outside Google but how can you do that when they represent over 70% of the daily searching volume? They are the Internet no matter if we like it or not.

As any other business in the world they are trying to make profit, who can blame them for that? The only problem is that they do it by destroying other people businesses lately and this is unacceptable. In fact love it or hate it, we are all working for Google by creating new websites, new content giving them something to index and to monetize. Don't you see that they make money from our work? On every page of the searches there are 10 websites ran by webmasters who are working hard to optimize and create new content every day and what they do is just place some paid advertising on the rightside and let the others bid for it (adwords)...oh, yes...they make money from every bit of improvement you make on your sites. I can even understand that...it's just their business...what do I hate is that they have decided to bite the hand who feeds them actually...

It really hurts to see quality sites with editorial integrity being punished while other new sites lower in quality are not. The other day a guy started a thread on these forums saying that his one month old directory have PR4 now...good for him but when you look at Alive and at his directory it seems to be a huge difference, isn't it? Is the PR metric relevant in this case? Definately not.

My idea if you guys want to protect your industry and to educate the average webmaster is to create something...don't know...a sort of association, call it whatever you like where the quality directories will eventualy emerge, without any kind of 3rd party rating meters...someone to come up with a code of conduct and those directories who agrees with this to place a badge / banner on their pages. When the average submiter will see the same badge on 500, 1k or 5k websites, he will start wondering what the hell is that and will eventually get to read the code of practice...this way you will educate the potential submiter. Just get an ordinary blog, no need any fancy website and work together on a set of regulations...if one of the respected members around would do this I would be happy to join. Once this organization, association or whatever you call it is strong and representative enough try getting in touch with Matt Cutts and his MickeyMouses and try to educate them too...

They obviously have no clue what a directory is and how hard is to run a directory. As an example I would remind you Matt Cutts answer when I asked why on earth did they penalized Alive and he replied with something about the phpld reciprocal feature which every directory based on phpld has it... (don't remember exactly his answer but you can check google's blog)

Just my two cents on this issue...remember if you stay together it will be easier to do something rather than each individual

P.S. If you still think these things shouldn't be discussed here...I have registered yesterday a nice domain and set up a forum on it...pretty empty yet...but I can create a private section in there and everyone can say exactly what he feels as I know there are a lot of people being afraid of saying what they think on these forums. Just let me know if interested...

 

Sorry loredan, but I thought I was on topic too. I heard a lot of discussion about co-operating,. About how this topic keeps coming up and that is all it is, just talk.

Then, I post, on topic, and get this?

Ok

And then you say

"P.S. If you still think these things shouldn't be discussed here...I have registered yesterday a nice domain and set up a forum on it...pretty empty yet...but I can create a private section in there and everyone can say exactly what he feels as I know there are a lot of people being afraid of saying what they think on these forums. Just let me know if interested..."?

So I can't post about my site, which is all about the cooperatiion and rating systems being discussed but

you can try to snooker users away from this forum to your own?

 

Naah...I think you just misunderstood...that's not quite an active forum...It has been set up yesterday so it's empty and not indexed.

If you read the posts above you'll notice that some members here advised that such things shouldn't be discussed here and I fully understand why.

I just offered a solution to this...trying to be helpful...that was all...

 

kewl, not a problem

 

Directories are really supported by many submitters, who use them for their SEO purposes. The majority of their SEO practices are directory submissions even today. The big fuss of PR as the primary SEO is a strong belief among those submitters. It will take time for them to understand PR is not the only SEO factor.

Until then, most of them will always evaluate directories with the PR bar unfortunately.

 

Realistically, PR and traffic are the two main reasons people submit to directories. And yes, some directories do provide traffic. For example, I have several times in similar threads posted that I get pretty decent traffic from 2yi.net. Recently also, I noticed a first-page SERPs listing for a competitive keyword, and the listing was from that same directory.

 

First an excellent post from a highly articulate and respected DP Member

Thanks Jim

I agree with your comments but with most of the systems you referred to they have checks and balances c/w with parameters that are uniformally assessed to establish a grade or to withold grading

The Internet is different if you work hard and diligently, you are not graded, in many cases as you are seen to be running a business that breaks all the rules. (rules unilaterally set by dictators)

You actually make some revenue

Then you are penalized

So that is what is quite simply fundamentally wrong in the eyes of folks who personally by hand pick out sites that they don't like, purely and simply because they are popular, generate ongoing, repeat business and revenue.

We cannot and will not bow down to systems that are in-accurate, biased, flawed etc etc

I will as usual get some red rep from the minority for telling the truth in this post, but thats how life is

In the interim and in the future, as always we will continue running on-line businesses that generate revenue

Moreover those same businesses will be fully supported and promoted 365/24/7

Thanks again Jim

 

Had my kip and a good one at that Pipes not at your post but in general.

Re discuss tactics as above, this thread is not about discussing tatctics in the shadows, it's not cloak n dagger more so people being able to discuss the improvement as a whole and betterment for all, and for that there is no need to to form an underground group, unless you have nothing better to do.

In rgards the the big G caht, i can honestly say i have never heard so much crap in my life, so to clarify where i stand with these guys it is as follows.

G is not the enemy, sad people who for many reasons need a big player to blame may use this war cry.

From where i sit they offer a great service that if people open their eyes can take and use parts of it to enhance their business with examples like.

Adsense, many people use this option, maps, youtube, feeds , analytics and so much more, however one part , the rating seems to cause greif to some and that small part then is used to cultivate all of the bull crap happening here.

from what i have seen some people have used this rating system as a means to promote and source income and while doing so and in their favour this so calld third party sysem is wonderful as it lines their pockets, but when the ratings ( or the rightful owners of those ratings ) give people a slap for profiting on their system all of a sudden not only is the rating system wrong but so is the whole lot.

I do not say that the rating system is true, false wrong or right but will say that i agree it is a factor that should not be used in any directory promotion.

If people are looking for the blame game on this mess, please grab a mirror ( for most of you ), how often i see posts like

I have a PR # dir half price links, or i want a list of dirs by PR, or i need pr # only dirs to post into and on the story goes.

If people really want to make a change then stop talking about PR, do not post as above and use the merrits of your work and the directory you have, this in itself probably will not happen, but unless people start to ignore those who mention or use these terms it will not improve.

and to do that it will take each and every one here to be stronger in notresponding to those posts, thinking about their thread title before posting and not creating an arguement over the darn stuff.

Like many i have no real measure of a good indicator for a directory but am leading towards one figure that probably means the most to me, unique visitors and overall visitors, these numbers embrace, our SEO efforts, our presentation skills and if we infact offer our readers a valuable resource in that they wish to return.

if focus went more to these areas people would also see not only G but all SE as freinds that help in a two way street.

yes the thinking is easy and people changing their mind is nothing new, in most cases that is normal.

As for the last part being hard, not where i come from, there are two rules, one is you decide to do something or you do not, thee is no middle ground.

In that i will stand and practice as above and make an effort to forget about listing, talking about or arguing about another persons rating system, see that all is not the enemy and in that may if people open their eyes be a freind and finally stand as a person who wishes to better the over all quality, outlok and views of the directory business, and to do that i wont run, hide or create other places to plot but rather stand here as one with others who think similar, that yes it is possible to create a positive enviroment and learning centre for all.

 

this is true and I think most of us are guilty of it
what surprises me is that BritishGuy was one of the same using PR as a factor and now since G has given out some penalties he cant even mention the letters

maybe I was naive in thinking people would realise a lot of the reason dirs have been hit so hard is because of how selling submissions was being linked to PR but people are still doing it day in day out
do these people not understand in a few months the same thing will happen to them that has happened to directories the second half of last year?
maybe you`re hoping to make a killing on the pr before you lose it..i dunno

 

I see why Google would take action against paid directories..

Yet, paid directories make the field uneven. It also hurts the search engines. People seem to make websites about a certain keyword, and that website would have nothing to do with the keyword, but they just want the money from all the searches. I believe that is a problem for google, and paid directories seem to make that problem even worse.

Now lets say you want to buy a paid link but for traffic? The solution is simple, put no follow tag.

"can you explain to me how you determine a paid link from a free one, ?"
Its kinda easy to determine them , the ones under sponsor or paid links usally are paid.

You could argue they got it for free, yet its their responsibility.
*Thats why i double check the directories and where my site will be*

thats just my 2 cents

 

i posted on the blog but apparently no activity there

Well Pete it sounds like a very good idea that you are presenting and i can see where you are coming from but:

In reality, directory owners are not the only ones who will submit to directories. Many others do. So by convincing directory owners not to rely on pr is not doing enough. Ok i agree with you about pr that it has become a great factor in the demise of the directory industry. But the rest of the world only submitted to directories to get link juice so their sites can be ranked high. Alot submitted to aviva because of that reason because aviva had a strong pr. Well, now people won’t submit to aviva because it have a pr 4 and it is penaltize. Well i am a directory owner and i like what jeff did with his site so i’ll submit. Well that makes him 80$, but the rest of the webmasters don’t know jeff and don’t like the work because there is no other rating system other than google and they are all trying to rank high in google. Google come out and say paid links are wrong and not allowed … most people see directories go down so they said well we are not submitting to directories any more so directory business is doom. Poor directory owners have nothing but to moan about pr because their business is gone. Now what can a directory owner do. Not buy links so google doesn’t penaltize them. Well that doesn’t do much does it because how will the world know about your site because you don’t promote. Now you can buy tons of links … and get submissions and you see a month later boom … pr drop .. no more submission as the site is penaltize…

maybe you suggest an alternative solution that is better and the rest of the world forgets about google and follow your lead … then no one will care about third party rating system.