OK I pretty much have this down for Joomla and Drupal but Zencart is throwing me for a loop. Their default template (they use an override system) has so many classes and ids that it is hard to work around.. I have found myself here.... http://bjrtechnologies.com/zen/ If you look at the source and around all their includes. I am trying to use just a few main divisions... body { margin : 0; padding : 0; text-align : center; font-family : verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size : 11px; } .centeredContent { text-align : center; } .back { float : left; } .clearBoth { clear : both; } #mainWrapper { border : 1px solid black; width : 950px; } #header { height : 250px; background: yellow; } #contentMainWrapper { width : 950px; background: pink; } #middle { width : 650px; float : left; } #navColumnOne { background : blue; float : left; } #navColumnTwo { background : blue; float : left; } #footer { background: pink; } Code (markup): however in Netscape you cannot see the background of #contentMainWrapper I have found that if this occurs I must have missed a clear float but I cannot find it....please any advice would stop the insanity.