I agree with all of the above comments. Targeting your site, increasing traffic, and maintaining good customer service is the buyer's responsibility- not that of the copywriter.
We can go back and forth all we want, but the plain cold truth is this... When you take on a copywriting job, especially from someone with no proven track record of paying you, you have to assume no matter how good a job you do, the money you get up front is going to be the ONLY MONEY YOU EVER SEE. Even with back end deals in place that pay based on performance (I mean actual increases in your fee when milestones are hit), the vast majority of marketers who don't already have a proven track record (you've worked for them, or others vouch for them) will do anything they can to screw you out of your back end money. You could set your watch by it.
This is a ridiculous offer. I think we should stop the discussion now as the Member who started the thread never ever responded back to this thread.
Personally I am not mused about this sort of ridiculous offer. (Well was it even close to an offer?) I believe it’s an insult. Nothing more! As I said in another thread - that here on DP forum most members need to be properly educated about the secrets of real copywriting. Added to this is to know how to work with copywriters just as they should know the differences between copywriting and so called “contents†writers they’ve so much used to here. That guy came up with that ‘offer’ because he thought copywriters, like those writing articles for $3 will come screeching to a halt at his post; begging him, PMing him and slaving under his feet to pander to his selfish thread, while he paraded himself as kind Kong helping them to earn a living and later update their i-trader. I think we copywriters here should take the gauntlet and let others know more about this issue. By then (only then) we will stop seeing this sort fellows fouling the air with their hidden dollars. Cheers. Patrick U. PS: By the way where is the fellow who posted the thread? I expected him to at least say something…
Sweet lord this thread is beginning to sound like a congregation of fundamentalist copywriters. I know that it feels nice to bash a new forum member for proposing a deal that doesn't quite fit your idea of making business, but as for myself I would rather give the benefit of the doubt to the poor chap that started this thread. Perhaps, just perhaps, he got busted in a deal where the copywriter fell short of meeting his end of the bargain and now he doesn't want to make the same mistake again. It is a two sided story here and trust must exist in both directions. You haven't even asked what is the conversion ratio that must be achieved, what is the payment involved and if he was willing to use an escrow service, instead all of you preferred to play it "safe" and assume that the buyer is necessarily evil, corrupt and likes to kill small babies. It is no wonder that the poor fellow never replied again, after this sort of "baptism of fire" I wouldn't touch this community with a 50 foot pole. Regards, George
No one said the op was "evil, corrupt, etc." And you apparently want to talk about trust, so fine. It needs to start from the beginning, with the person posting the gig. If the thread were started by a service provider instead, it would have to start with them. But there's a big difference between trust and being gullible. People who take this kind of gig are in the latter category. The original post blatantly said they wanted a good copywriter who could guarantee results and that they'd pay whatever is reasonable. We pointed out a flaw that's going to turn off the "good copywriters," which is what they were asking for, and we detailed what "reasonable" pay is for that "good copywriter." When posting a gig in a certain way turns off the primary group you're trying to target, it's better to have it pointed out so you can decide either to adjust your thinking or to settle for an amateur who doesn't know any better yet in the hopes that they'll write something that converts. The conversion level didn't matter in this case in the slightest... that's not what was being questioned. The problem isn't in the level, but in the fact that they're assuming conversion is entirely in the hands of copy, which is extremely far from the truth. W/o being able to detail that they have adequate and appropriate traffic, the copy doesn't mean much. If they've already tapped their current audience, and can't show that they're improving visitor demographics and/or quantity, you'd be a fool to let your pay rest on conversions completely. The fact is that a "good" copywriter commands thousands of dollars per sales letter, and even if the op is willing to pay that to hire the kind of writer they say they want, that group of copywriters is more than a little unlikely to accept conversion-based pay w/o some kind of reasonable up front payment for their time and expertise. That's the reality of the situation, based on what the op says they want versus what they're proposing. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out, and if anything the discussion back and forth gives them a few perspectives to think about things and the option to change their priorities to something more realistic.
Reading through what has already been said, I have found it quite interesting that no one has mentioned a key portion of the original request. Beyond the perhaps unrealistic expectation of getting a "good copywriter" to write a sales letter to convert at some level greater than whatever is currently being used; they want that same copywriter to put the letter on their own server/site for a week. So along with writing on spec, the writer is also to host the letter? And get results in under a week? Some of my sites can and do get indexed fairly quickly and getting new content seen in under a week is not out of the realm of possiblities. Even writing sales copy on spec is something I would consider depending on the circumstances. Someone posting on DP with no information in their profile and having so few posts would not qualify as a good risk to me. Without any knowledge of the person involved or the company they are representing; putting a sales letter on my server/site to market their product or service is simply not gonna happen. To me that is a much bigger red flag with this offer than the majority of the conversation relating to guaranteed results, good writing, or writing on spec. for a percentage. Any and all of those could be simply related to the OP's never having hired a professional writer before.
Not again! ----> http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=184925 Seems to be a lot of disagreement between members in the copywriting forum.
If you do take on a deal like this with someone you've never done business with before don't expect to get paid anything - ever. That's being realistic. If you're happy to do it on the basis that you'll never get paid (in other words you need the experience) then go for it. Negotiating terms etc on a deal like this is the height of optimism. If someone hasn't paid you in the past then don't expect they will pay you on a deal where they hold all the cards and you have no way of making them pay you. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh