Hi I am looking for a good copywriter who can guarantee (with results) to improve the conversions on my sales letter. Put the finished copy on your server. I'll test for a week and if good conversions will pay. I'll pay whatever is reasonable but I need quick results. Please pm me for details. Thanks
I'll be interested to see if ANY decent copywriter takes you up on this offer. You know, writing on the "chance of getting paid" is something we do for our own products. Why would any writer worth his salt, do this without a back end deal? Sure, you want copy... Agree to pay SOMETHING up front and give me a percentage of your profits. Then we can talk. (I don't just mean me. I mean any good copywriter.)
I agree with the above comments. Most, if not all, good writers will never agree to your proposition. I suggest doing your due dilligence and researching prospective writers, including reading reviews posted by past clients, and then hiring the best one.
That's ridiculous! A copywriter can promise you good copy, but that's ALL they can promise you -- you need to hold up your end and market the site effectively to ensure the copy gets read at all! Good luck trying to find a professional writer who will take you up on this ridiculous offer, without guarantee of any payment up front.
They're right... not going to happen with a professional. Who decides what "good" conversions are? Lack of conversion could have nothing to do with the copy in the first place if, like Denise said, you're not marketing effectively to a targeted audience to begin with (they won't convert if they're not there to read the copy). Your best bet is to either come up with another payment arrangement, or work with an amateur who's still trying to build their experience.
I have at times taken a commission-based approach with clients that I KNOW and TRUST (key, not someone I have never worked with before), who are reputable in the Internet marketing industry. We usually worked out a combination flat fee and commission on sales produced by the sales letter. Here's why I would never work with someone I didn't know (i.e. an ad posted on an online forum): -How would there be accountability for the sales? Since payment is "if sales occur", how would that be demonstrated at the end of the month? -What kind of marketing process do you have in place? Simply posting an online sales letter will NOT generate sales unless you have: a. a good product (and not just a rehashed resale of someone else's) b. strong methods for generating significant traffic to your website (thousands daily) c. strong testimonials d. a joint venture to help generate "buzz" about your product e. good analytics to help you determine what is working, and what isn't, when you "tweak" your letter. The above are just the start; most good marketers have many more elements in place. So...this is why people who are any good simply won't take up an offer to "rewrite a sales letter". Folks with real experience need to know more about the product, the sales and marketing process in place, and other things. This is why on my own website, I state front and center: "Good copywriting alone is NOT enough". It takes a lot more to successfully sell online. Good luck with your site. Sheri
Actually it's not at all unusual for professional online copywriters to guarantee a certain increase in response rate. Usually the payment method is standard - 50% to 100% of the copywriting fee in advance. Then we promise rewrites till the desired response rate is met. It's not that big a deal if you know what you're doing. Most online copy is pretty awful and you can usually tell just by looking at it what kind of increase in response you should be able to get. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh
I would actually undergo such a task, but only under certain conditions. The most important one being of course the facilitation of checking the conversion ratio myself and the knowledge of where the traffic is coming from. If for example the traffic comes from autosurfs, it doesn't matter how well the copy is written, nobody will buy. If you manage to satisfy the above conditions I'm your man. Regards, George
That's not at all what this user wants... they want no payment at all until they see if it gives them results.
Yes I know there's no money up front in this deal. But the thread was beginning to go off in the direction of saying things like "it's not my job as a copywriter to gurantee an increase in response." If that's not your job as a professional copywriter I don't know what is. What's interesting is that everyone gets so upset when an online business owner suggests a deal like this. No working professional copywriter would touch it with a ten foot pole but if you're starting out this is a great way to get your feet wet. Will you get ripped off with deals like this as a copywriter? Yes that's 100% guaranteed. But most copywriters starting out need the experience of working with a client and getting ripped off. As a professional copywriter you'll get offered ridiculous deals like this all the time. If you're rude to the clients who offer them it is going to cost you in the long run. The online business owner who's trying to get some copy done on the cheap today is often the same guy who's willing to pay full price up front in 3-6 months. Experience is a great teacher. Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh
Your job as a professional copywriter is to increase conversions or reach whatever other goal is set forth, IF the webmaster (in this case) is providing the audience. If all they do is have crap traffic coming to their site that's completely untargeted, there's a very good chance they've already reached the maximum conversion level possible. The best copy in the world can't make people buy or take action if they don't care about the topic/product/site. Getting the audience there to view the copy is the site owner's responsibility, and if they expect commission-based work, they'd better be able to prove they're doing their part before not paying a copywriter for putting in the time. There's no need to, so I would call it far from "great." I've never once taken a gig like this to get involved in copywriting, and many don't. If you insist on doing work for free or next to nothing, you're usually better off finding a recognized nonprofit organization, or local branch of such, because it looks better in your resume than an unheard of website. Actually, I'd say most of them trying to get it done cheap now are the ones who are going to be earning more and still want it cheap in 3-6 months to increase their own profit margin, b/c they already know they can take advantage of cheap writers. Do some move up their rates? Yes. You'd have an extremely hard time convincing me that accounts for anywhere near the majority. And it's not rude to tell someone it's an unrealistic offer, especially when they're concerned about results so much to not want to pay anything up front. Hiring an amateur isn't your best bet if results are really what you want. Wanting a "good copywriter" would generally imply they had some level of experience, and wouldn't be completely inexperienced.
I just don't agree. Sure, you don't want to be rude. And I don't think we were rude. But I don't know ANY professional worth his salt who would take a deal like this. Newbies? Sure, but only if they're not yet professionals. And as for guaranteeing results. I'm looking for the name of any professional copywriter who will guarantee conversion. There are just too many things out of our control. That said... I (like many others) will have a second payment due based on conversion. The usual guarantee is that the CW will give 30 days for rewrites in the attempt to convert better, but all of it is based on full testing. In a second payment deal, it's like "you get the 30 days and I'll keep rewriting, and IF I meet a certain watermark, I get an additional X amount. This gives the CW additional incentive to make the letter convert. But this is all AFTER getting paid already. Not... "I'll write it and if it converts you pay me." Never seen that deal, and wouldn't have ever taken that deal even when I was brand new. So, again... I'd like to see the name of the CW (of any note) who guarantees conversion.
Okay, here's why no one can guarantee conversions. I have heard horror stories of people being hired by someone, asking them to write a "killer letter" to sell more products. Then, when all of ten people visited the website in a 30-day period, they blamed the copywriter that all ten didn't "buy". This is unrealistic. It also highlights why copywriting is only one part of good marketing. Just as important is helping a client learn how to bring targeted visitors to their website, or suggesting strategies for increasing clicks, so that people actually SEE the sales letter. If they don't see it, they can't buy from it. Also the "cheap purchaser" paying more later. I personally have never, ever seen this happen. Very early in my writing career, I wrote sales letters for some fairly well-known marketers for $250 and $350 each (I honestly didn't know any better). One was notorious for always looking for 'good bargains" and boasted that he would never pay more than that for a sales letter (even though the letters earned him hundreds of thousands of dollars). Another had me write five letters, and when I asked for more money (after all, I was making him tons), he said that he couldn't do it, couldn't afford it...yet I later learned how much money (over $250,000) that he made from my letters, from someone else. So, I raised my rates and asking for royalties, and made a lot more money (then got hired by a corporate client, but that's another story). So, do marketers who make money off of sales letters always pay a fair price? No. And the new person who doesn't know any better will agree to write one for...peanuts, not realizing how badly undervalued their writing is, if they're any good. And I was good, even back then; a large direct marketing company on the West coast was going to hire me, on the strength of my portfolio, for $3K a letter, before I went into corporate writing. So...I have issues with "doing it cheap", since I did that route earlier in my career. I do NOT recommend it to anyone. I simply didn't know any better at the time, or how much good sales letters can (and should) command, which is why I was taken advantage of. So my posts here were trying to help others avoid that same pitfall. Best wishes, Sheri
Of course there isn't any guarantee of a successful outcome. This is the whole catch. I see this deal as a sort of revshare scheme. There are indeed higher risks, but also higher potential winnings. If you are willing to write articles for 5 bucks a piece, that's your choice, but if you want to earn more you have to ride more risky ventures and this one with all its flaws strikes me as a promising one. BTW my offer is still available. Best regards, George
How do you figure? This offer isn't "we'll pay you a rate based on conversions." It's "if it converts at a level we're happy with, then we'll pay you." Huge difference. You decide on a fee (a fair fee for a sales letter is easily several thousand dollars for any professional copywriter), and then if it converts they'll pay you... at least that's how the offer reads to me. The risk is only on the writer, and there's no added "reward" if you get a certain amount of conversions. But as others said, you pay the copywriter for their time regardless (unless the work is complete crap), and then you pay a percentage ON TOP of that based on performance... not having the basic fee determined by whether it converts, which as I think most of us have demonstrated, isn't even close to being entirely in the copywriter's hands.
True, but on such a deal the payment made AFTER I reach a certain level of conversions should be much higher than a normal project. Higher risks, higher payment. That's what I envisioned. Regards, George
Not unless that's what the buyer said, and they didn't. They'd have a price in their mind, and you'd likely have to agree to that before the project could begin (you can't do the work and then tell them how much they owe you). So there wouldn't be anything "higher". And as was already mentioned, unless they're paying several thousand dollars when that's reached (and they can confirm that they already have the targeted traffic and are otherwise marketing on their end to put eyes in front of the copy), there's no reward for the risk... you'd be better off risking your time by searching for other clients, especially if you're a good copywriter.
What you're talking of is usually called negotiation. Given the high risk attached to such a project, I would imagine that I have a basis on which to ask a higher paycheck. I would not go blindly and write for pennies. The buyer is aware that what he is buying is quality copy and more importantly guaranteed quality copy. For this extra guarantee I could easily ask double my usual fee and as long as the whole deal is profitable for the buyer I see no reason in not taking it. The risks for the buyer are much lower, but the price tag goes up. It's a fundamental market law. Regards, George
But again, that's not what this buyer is saying. They in no way said that the pay rate will be determined by the conversion rate, and that's where the problem comes in. They simply said if it works, you'll get paid. There's no "more" aspect to it, since they're not paying any agreed upon amount up front to ask for an increase on. It comes across as a flat-rate project, and they'll simply pay if they're happy, and won't if they're not. That's not how professional copywriters work, whether the "risk" could net them a bit more or not.