Copyright infringement advise, Partners ripped me off

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by smokey99, Dec 21, 2005.

  1. #1
    HI,
    I stupidly agreed to partner with some people on a mortgage site, without having it on paper first.
    The deal was:
    I do SEO, total rewrite of provided content, build site structure,
    A Web design Co was to do the graphics and page design
    A mortgage broker would provide basic content and close the deals.

    We were to split a percentage of the commissions 3 ways.
    They kept delaying paperwork until I had a month of work done, and then I got feup and pushed for agreement on paper.

    All the while I was posting my work (Idiot) for their approval
    Anyways long story short, the agreement they finally produced was nothing like we discussed, and I pushed for the original verbally agreed terms.
    They told me the deal was off and cut me out.

    They are using my content almost word for word, structure, nav, every page is my work.

    Is there anyway (other than paying a lawyer) to either demand payment or cease and decist use of my copyrighted work?

    In Reading Googles Digital Millennium Copyright Act, it seems to be a problem for me because we collaberated or had at least a verbal agreement.

    Any suggestions?
    I was thinking about reporting them to G for copyright infringement, but don't want to end up in a legal battle. (Spending good money after bad)

    Or maybe removing the no index or follow from the robot tags, so G would see a duplicate, and penalize them.

    BTW: This is in Canada

    Thanks for any advise
     
    smokey99, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  2. Cristian Mezei

    Cristian Mezei Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    355
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    213
    #2
    Even with a lawyer, you actually don't stand a chance to win :)

    Anyway, for such a trial, the lawyer's fee would greatly outstand the income regained for your work.
     
    Cristian Mezei, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  3. Smyrl

    Smyrl Tomato Republic Staff

    Messages:
    13,740
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Best Answers:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    510
    #3
    This is indeed maddening. Next time you take on a collabrative effort demand some kind of a payment before doing anything and having any paper work in place to protect yourself. Don't feel alone we have all been taken.

    My fear is only lawyer would win if you pursued.

    Good luck.

    Shannon
     
    Smyrl, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  4. smokey99

    smokey99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #4
    I agree that it is no use in spending on a lawyer, but what about reporting to G as a copyright infringement.

    I would like to see them re-write the site, or get the boot from google.
     
    smokey99, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  5. Cristian Mezei

    Cristian Mezei Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    355
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    213
    #5
    You just can't do this. Unfortunatelly.

    I myself (as others) went trough the same situation.

    Next time, write it all down.

    Or perhaps try to settle this in a friendly manner with them. To actually recompensate SOME of your work.
     
    Cristian Mezei, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  6. Smyrl

    Smyrl Tomato Republic Staff

    Messages:
    13,740
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Best Answers:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    510
    #6
    I do not know the answer. You could definately file a DMCA complaint but the offending site might sue you. Can you prove your case?

    Shannon
     
    Smyrl, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  7. noppid

    noppid gunnin' for the quota

    Messages:
    4,246
    Likes Received:
    232
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    135
    #7
    If you did the work for them, they own it. If you didn't get paid, that's not a copyright issue I'd think. But I'm no attorney.
     
    noppid, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  8. Cristian Mezei

    Cristian Mezei Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    355
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    213
    #8
    Noppid. The owner is the one who wrote it :) (if he can prove that).
     
    Cristian Mezei, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  9. smokey99

    smokey99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #9
    I could prove it by showing document properties (Creation dates) if acceptable, but would not want to go down the legal path.

    I would rather find a way of forcing them to remove or payup.

    BTW; To show what class these morons have, they are putting a Casino pop-under on a mortgage broker site.
     
    smokey99, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  10. smokey99

    smokey99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #10
    I wonder about sending a letter demanding payment Or I will take legal action and report to Google.
    Maybe I could convince them to pay at least a part of what they owe me.
    Or face lots of hassles.
     
    smokey99, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  11. livingearth

    livingearth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    83
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    140
    #11
    Sell or give your work to a few dozen other mortgage companies in template form...
    Throw in just enough promo and links to rank them higher...

    Jus kiddin'["evil thoughts"]

    Actually Smokey99 probably has the right idea....
    Maybe you could find a lawyer in need of a site and trade services. Maybe have him send a letter on company letterhead...
     
    livingearth, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  12. smokey99

    smokey99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #12
    Livingearth,
    Great idea, I already do a bit of work for a law firm, maybe I could trade off an official looking letter.
     
    smokey99, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  13. aqua

    aqua Peon

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #13
    if you can prove your copyright, then reporting it to the webhosting company may be a good idea. i saw one post where someone reported copyright infringement to Yahoo who hosted the site. the site was taken down within 2 days. webhosting cos don't like potential lawsuits.
     
    aqua, Dec 21, 2005 IP
  14. mcfox

    mcfox Wind Maker

    Messages:
    7,526
    Likes Received:
    716
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #14
    Smokey, you might be pissed at them but at the moment, you really don't have any redress, especially towards copyright.

    What you do have, however, is a bundle of work which you could use for some sites of your own. Get yourself some web hosting, one that allows for several domains on the same account and launch multiple mortgage sites using the content you wrote.
     
    mcfox, Dec 22, 2005 IP
  15. smokey99

    smokey99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #15
    I may try advising their host as suggested, thanks Aqua.

    Mcfox, I have thought about that, but I would have to find a broker to close the deals.
    Unless there are some good affiliates or similar for Canadian Mortgages.

    Any suggestions on how to monetize a site like that without closing our own deals?

    Thanks for all the input folks, I appreciate it.

    I have certainly learned a lesson here.
    Smokey
     
    smokey99, Dec 22, 2005 IP
  16. mjewel

    mjewel Prominent Member

    Messages:
    6,693
    Likes Received:
    514
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #16
    You can always send a demand letter and see what happens. I don't think google is going to get involved with this because it is more of a contractual dispute. You provided them the content (granted them permission to use it) and then the defaulted on payment.

    Google has a pretty involved process for reporting infringement and you also risk legal fees if google was to get involved and a you lost a legal case, which is possible, especially with a verbal contract (from google):

    "Please note that you
    will be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys' fees) if you
    materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your
    copyrights. Indeed, in a recent case (please see
    http://www.onlinepolicy.org/action/legpolicy/opg_v_diebold/ for more
    information), a company that sent an infringement notification seeking
    removal of online materials that were protected by the fair use doctrine
    was ordered to pay such costs and attorneys fees. The company agreed to
    pay over $100,000. Accordingly, if you are not sure whether material
    available online infringes your copyright, we suggest that you first
    contact an attorney."

    I would just send a deman letter and if they don't respond, then you will have to decide if you want to hire an attorney. As you don't have a written contract that provides for prevailing party legal fees, you would more than likely be unable to get you legal costs back even if you were to win. I personally wouldn't go this route and just chalk it up to experience.

    You are probably tempted to pursue it on principal, but I've learned it's better to try and just let things go and get everything in writing the next time. About 10 years ago I got into a dispute over $5,000 and things escalated which caused a another chain of events and the legal fees wound up almost being a million dollars. Even though I prevailed in the end and legal fees were paid (written contract) it wasn't worth the time or the satisfaction.
     
    mjewel, Dec 22, 2005 IP
  17. smokey99

    smokey99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    108
    #17
    I will probably just send a letter demanding payment or removal of my content.
    Other wise I will file in Small claims court, its only $150 or so and no lawyers required.
     
    smokey99, Dec 22, 2005 IP
  18. mcfox

    mcfox Wind Maker

    Messages:
    7,526
    Likes Received:
    716
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #18
    Why not approach some brokers on your own?
     
    mcfox, Dec 22, 2005 IP
  19. aqua

    aqua Peon

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #19
    smokey99,

    i think going to small claims court is an excellent idea, esp if the judge is sympathetic to you. good luck!
     
    aqua, Dec 22, 2005 IP
  20. Skinny

    Skinny Peon

    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    93
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #20
    I really don't think you can do much. As you say nothing was on paper so they really don't owe you anything.

    I feel really bad for you. Next time make sure it's all down on paper before starting a project. They probably wanted this to happen. Really sad.

    Skinny
     
    Skinny, Dec 22, 2005 IP