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Common misconceptions about DMOZ

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by jimnoble, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. #1
    I thought it worth collecting together a few common remarks about ODP/DMOZ and providing responses. None of them are new because I've been trying to educate in this forum for years - to little avail :(

    The editors are lazy
    Editors are volunteers who edit as much or as little as they wish within the bounds of their permissions. Some do 2 or 3 edits per month (every little helps) and some others do a hundred or more per day. The accounts of those who do no edits for 120 days are closed for security reasons. Reinstatement isn't usually a problem when more time becomes available.

    Editors prevent rival websites from being listed
    'Cat sitting' is pretty difficult to achieve because most categories can be edited by a couple of hundred editors with higher permissions - and they use them. There's usually no problem with having several named editors in a category by the way.

    Editors are corrupt
    There have been corrupt editors in the past and I don't doubt that there are some right now. However, everything is logged and abuse hunting meta editors are pretty adept at investigating 'unusual' patterns of behaviour. When abuse is found, it's dealt with - as a number of ex-editors who frequent DMOZ focused forums can testify.

    Editors are too slow to accept listing suggestions
    There are over a million categories and a couple of orders fewer editors - most with quite narrow permissions. The consequences are that many categories aren't looked at very often - particularly in the spammier competitive sectors such as travel, real estate and gambling. Delays (for listable websites) are most usually because of lack of available volunteers. That's the very nature of a volunteer project - which isn't attempting to provide a service to website promoters anyway.

    I'm losing money because editors won't list me
    If you think your business depends upon the actions of anonymous volunteers working to undefined timescales, you should cut your losses and close it down now. If you think that's harsh, ask your financial advisors.

    Editors don't respond to emails about my website
    They are encouraged not to do so because any ensuing conversation ends badly all too often. Threats and even real life stalking tend to be demotivating and aren't tolerated. There are hundreds of millions of websites that we haven't looked at yet. That you suggested yours doesn't make it more eligible than those that haven't been and emailing an editor won't normally expedite matters.

    They aren't accepting new editors
    Oh yes they are and becoming an editor is pretty easy. All you have to do is:
    • Choose a category suitable for a beginner (preferably unspammy and with 15-100 listings).
    • Demonstrate fluency in the language of the category.
    • Demonstrate an understanding of the category (by giving eligible examples).
    • Demonstrate integrity (by absence of lies).
    Sadly, most applications fail for one or more of the above reasons. Applications are evaluated by meta editors and catmods by the way, not category editors.

    They refused to list my website
    It would be very unusual if we told you about a refusal because there's generally no need to do so. You can easily self check whether or not your site is listable at Submission Guidelines and Site Selection Criteria. If it is, be patient. If it isn't, don't waste your time suggesting it.

    I suggested my website every year for years but nothing
    If it's listable, a re-suggestion is unnecessary and can be disadvantageous because it will overwrite the previous one.

    <Nomex on>
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
    jimnoble, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  2. williamsweb

    williamsweb Active Member

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    #2
    quite useful points.
    My sites are never accepted in DMOZ, adding them since 2006 and still none. :(
     
    williamsweb, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  3. Anonymously

    Anonymously Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Thanks, Jim, for a useful positive thread starter.
    Can I just add a couple more
    Sites have to have good Page rank to be listed
    We list any site that has unique content, not because they have good PR, gizmos or whatever.

    Sites offered to the wrong category will be rejected
    Editors send them to what they think is the best category, if a site does not fit the one it has been suggested in, but that can cause delay whilst the site again sits in the suggestions pool of the new site, so it is better to try and find the best fit.

    Only suggest a site to category with a named editor, even if that is not the best fit category
    Categories that have a named editor often define (though not exclusively) the limits of an editor's permissions to edit. S/he can edit anywhere in that category and in any categories lower down the tree. Which means that for any category any editor higher up that category tree can edit as well as the named editor, as can also any of the several hundred editors who can edit anywhere in the directory.
     
    Anonymously, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  4. ezaru

    ezaru Peon

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    #4
    Good to hear that there is actually another person that think DMOZ is not worth our time. There are still lots of methods to promote our site instead of struggling with DMOZ.

    -ezaru-
     
    ezaru, Dec 4, 2011 IP
    helleborine likes this.
  5. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #5
    Some editors do the minimum to maintain their editor status. Those editors would be lazy... while not all are, some certainly are.
    With each category having hundreds of editors, then why is the wait time up to years?

    At least the editors are not lazy!

    Oh, like getting a single site that is affiliated with a single editor having nearly TWENTY THOUSAND pages deep linked to most of which break multiple guidelines? You are correct, this is certainly a misconception which has never happened... and is certainly not something that is within the ODP at this very time!

    I'm thrilled to know that Skrenta and Topix have both been removed from the directory!


    Hmmm... but I thought they were not lazy and that each category had potentially hundreds of editors?

    LOL... can't complain on that one, some people are just plain nuts when it comes to the importance of the ODP!

    Thats right folks... the editors are told not to communicate with the end user, and are encouraged to despise those that submit thinking that they are all nasty webmasters.

    As I've filled out that application more then once... how do they know what lies are on it? Sounds like guess work to me, and if they are rejecting people on guesswork, then, erm, that does not say a lot about them does it? Might as well call them liars as well!

    Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If I read the guidelines, then find the best category for my site and see a bunch of trash listed, or worse, sites that are nothing but syndicated content made for spiders (Topix anyone?!?!) and so I submit my site which is someplace in the middle and don't see it listed in 5 or 6 years... it's not safe to assume that they refused? Or if I do have a site that is listable by all accounts and it sits in the queue for years and does not get listed, it's still not safe to assume its been rejected?

    People will assume that their sites have been rejected as long as the ODP assumes that communication does more harm then good.
    Strange, other editors claim that resuggesting that many times can result in getting their site banned...

    But as most of those editors also claim it's not a QUEUE because editors don't have to do the suggestions in order, then overwriting an old listing does not have any more of a meaning then a single hair off a rats bum. SO it's either a queue or it isn't... and if it's not, then such an overwrite is a moot point at best.

    True, they have MANY listings with a ZERO page rank!

    As sad as it seems, people that read the guidelines will find that to be false! The add page submitters are required to read states that submitting to the wrong category can get a site rejected or removed. That implies that it will be REJECTED not moved as you state. So either the submitter should actually read and pay attention to the add page, or just skip it as a bunch of trash. Which is it?

    Step Three

    Identify the single best category for your site. The Open Directory has an enormous array of subjects to choose from. You should submit a site to the single most relevant category. Sites submitted to inappropriate or unrelated categories may be rejected or removed.
    SOURCE: http://www.dmoz.org/add.html


    Jim already pointed out that each and every category has hundreds of editors....
     
    Qryztufre, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  6. Laceygirl

    Laceygirl Banned

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    #6
    I take it QRy, really wants in DMOZ but keeps getting rejected. lol
     
    Laceygirl, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  7. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #7
    Actually I left... and no, it was not because I listed my own site. If you'd like details PM me, as I made a promise to to keep dragging that issue out. Though, even if it was because I listed my own site, that would be OK for several reasons and well within the guidelines :D

    I did reapply once however, but have yet to be rejected (or accepted) so *shrug* I just stick around now to help remind editors that they are rather two faced in how they deal with the world when it concerns the ODP. Like how they insist that positive feedback for completed transactions is not proof that links are sold on 3rd party sites, and how it's not corruption that Skrenta has/had nearly 20 thousand deep links to pages that do not conform to ODP standards yet were listed by robots rather then humans, and of course, there is always the wonderful way that Editors treat the hardworking webmaster for simply wanting to be listed in their directory... Not to mention how they keep changing the meanings of words like queue, listing, service, and many more.

    You can see by my post above that editors have a view of how things happen within the ODP that do not really seem to conform to how things truly are...
     
    Qryztufre, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  8. snooks

    snooks Well-Known Member

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    #8
    There is a big difference in leaving......as compared to being ASKED to leave and having no option LOL

    Like i said, pretty good at twisting the old words is Q :)
     
    snooks, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  9. jimnoble

    jimnoble Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Just to clarify, Q was not fired but resigned over a matter of principle and later sought reinstatement. To date, this has not been granted.
     
    jimnoble, Dec 4, 2011 IP
  10. David Frankk

    David Frankk Greenhorn

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    #10
    Is it really worth all the effort in getting a link in DMOZ. last I heard, Google had discredited the site as it takes too much time to review listings.
     
    David Frankk, Dec 5, 2011 IP
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  11. syted

    syted Notable Member

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    #11
    Where did you hear that, you have a source? Sounds ridiculous.
     
    syted, Dec 5, 2011 IP
  12. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #12
    You are correct, but I don't see how this applies to anything that has been said within this thread...

    Thanks jim!

    What do you think I twisted this time?

    Don't you have anything constructive to add to this thread?
     
    Qryztufre, Dec 5, 2011 IP
  13. Laceygirl

    Laceygirl Banned

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    #13
    So it all makes sense now, huh Q.
    What I would like to know is how many volunteer perks do you guys get considering Q here has been bashing Dmoz for years now?
    Q, move on. There's more to life than Dmoz-ing. Join a forum and be a forum review staff or something.
     
    Laceygirl, Dec 5, 2011 IP
  14. dcristo

    dcristo Illustrious Member

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    #14
    Obviously this logic is flawed. How does the review time influence the quality of sites in DMOZ?
     
    dcristo, Dec 5, 2011 IP
  15. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #15
    Nah... I'm having fun volunteering my time to help those that wish to search the internet through categorized data :D

    Everyone needs a hobby, right? ;)
     
    Qryztufre, Dec 5, 2011 IP
  16. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

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    #16
    Comes down the word from on high - LOL
     
    joeventura, Dec 7, 2011 IP
  17. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

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    #17
    Both of them!
     
    joeventura, Dec 7, 2011 IP
  18. joeventura

    joeventura Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Google did not discredit ODP because it takes too long to get listed, they discredited them because the data in their directory is not relevant.

    Why is it not relevant?

    Because there are too many categories and not enough editors.

    Why are their not enough editors?

    Because there is some gauntlet of review that no one can get past.

    Why is there this gauntlet?

    Because ODP thought they could be relevant forever and made it too hard to become an editor.

    How'd that work out for ya?

    You have seen it a million times on the web, when some entity thinks that they are so valuable that they can become lazy, corrupt, godlike in their selection of peers, and what always happens is they lose their focus on the product and those who once made them relevant go away and they are left with nothing.

    ODP lost their focus on their product many many years ago. They could have easily saved it. They could have done so by accepting a wider range of editors and then programatically reviewed the quantity and types of sites they reviewed and if they didnt meet a specific model/algo then they automatically get booted. This never happened and in their heyday ODP was probably rejecting 95% of their editor applications on the first pass with cryptic and even stupid (or worse yet no) reason why. Thus turning off millions of people to the product.

    Now that ODP is dead people like Jim are still posting FAQs on irrelevant stuff when he has yet to address the fact that YES Google has dropped ODP as a source of authority and that means GAME OVER for ODP.

    Turn off the screen, the party is over, you had your nice time, now it's time to go do something else.
    ODP is to SEARCH What Myspace is to Social Media.
     
    joeventura, Dec 7, 2011 IP
  19. syted

    syted Notable Member

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    #19
    What a load of tripe.
     
    syted, Dec 7, 2011 IP
  20. Qryztufre

    Qryztufre Prominent Member

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    #20
    I think that first line was pretty right on... the rest is all speculation so yeah, tripe.
     
    Qryztufre, Dec 7, 2011 IP