codename "Charlie" Yahoo ranking shift (Yahoo Sandbox)

I'd be glad to excahnge a rank at Yahoo for one at Google. But I haven't seen any improvement at all in Google from using the coop. Actually, not even in Yahoo, the only difference I can see is in that unknown little engine called MSN

 

500 weight in the coop got my site indexed in 24 hours

 

My intention was to provide an explanation. I am not providing a "theory". You can choose to take what I've said to heart or not. It is really no benefit to me either way.

With that said, let me cover some of the ridiculous statements that some people are pulling out of their warped sense of reality.

First, I don't think people understand how search engine rankings ACTUALLY work. Since this is what I do, let me explain it to you.

Rankings sites are like trying to solve a simultaneous equation with dynamic variables that are changing even while you are trying to solve it. As with any regression equation, it takes many iterations to reach a point of non-significant error deviation. So there is never an actual "answer". The algorithm just keeps calculating until is gets as close as it can. In the case of ranking the entire Internet, even with thousands of servers we are talking about TRILLIONS of calculations with countless iterations. It is like a pendulum that swings back and forth until it gets closer and closer to the center.

As you can imagine, without a control variable, it makes it near impossible to have a decent starting point. So, what they have done is used certain factors that they deem credible to form a base. Many sites were dropped right away in the first iteration. Yes, this means you would not even rank for your own domain. But when scrubbing those dropped sites, they will reintroduce many of them into the new formula. This doesn't mean you will have the ranking you had before but it is highly unlikely that you are completely banned.

So many people have stories about what they are experiencing in THEIR industry or THEIR keyword. Do you honestly think that Yahoo has it out for you? Do you EVEN think they have checked the results of your specific keyword or phrase out of the billions of possibilities? They create a formula (usually based on a standard pre-existing model), go through a series of tests to see if it works in a few sectors, implement the formula to the main index, then continue to alter the new variables until things even out and seem sufficient. Inherently in such an equation, it will start out as bad as it can get then usually get better with every iteration.

I hear some people spitting out utter non-sense about getting sites banned by pointing links to it. Luckily there are also some sensible, level-headed people here that realize the rational application of such a notion. Must I say it again? You CAN NOT be penalized for something you can't control! It defies the fundamental philosophy of ALL search technology. Anyone who believes they can get a site banned by linking to it is floating in a false reality. Think of the logical result of that. All results could be made completely irrelevant.

Again, that doesn't mean the links can't appear to hurt you. Maybe you were getting credit for links you shouldn't have. And when you drop, you think you are being penalized. (I’m not talking about being removed from the index in this case, that is another issue)

I have thousands of websites with millions of indexed pages. Some have the co-op, some don't. Some with the co-op have gone from top 5 in huge keywords to not ranked (just like many of you). Others with the co-op have actually gone up in ranking. I also have many sites that do not have the co-op that have been dropped or gone up in ranking. The problem is NOT the co-op. Nor is this a temporary glitch in rankings. YES, the rankings will continue to shift just like the FLORIDA update on Google. But even when the dust settles, it will not be the same rankings you once knew. My findings are based on information I know from industry contacts along with my own calculations. I'm not talking about a paper and pen, opening a spreadsheet in Excel, or even a little formula I program in a day. My partners and I build MASSIVE search analytic systems. Almost to the scale of the search engines themselves.

I didn't codename this update either. I heard if from a friend of mine in the search industry. I don't know where he heard it but he has always been very credible and works closely with the company in question. I really didn't care because the name of it is irrelevant and it sounded fine to me.

You really need to look at the bigger picture and the end results. Not a day from now, but a month from now. The formula has changed and new triggers have been put in place. Just like FLORIDA it starts out very rigid then eases up in time as sites are reintroduced. Yahoo is obviously experiencing many "false positives" with their current iteration. They will remedy it.

Keep in mind that Yahoo does not have an obligation to ANY business. They can use websites as "guinea pigs" if they want. It is amazing to me when businesses think they have legal justification for being ranked on a FREE search engine. You could have been #1 for 6 years and they have absolutely no obligation to keep you there. If the success of your business was based on your ranking in a single search engine, then it is a poor business model.

EVEN if you paid to be in the Yahoo directory, all that means is that your site is in their directory, that's it. It does not mean they couldn't ban from the natural listing anyway. They don't keep checking sites after they have been approved for the directory. They rely on their formula to catch sites in violation of their guidelines and TOS. So it is entirely possible to be in their directory and not in the SERPs (at least for right now).

People need to calm down. Look at the bigger picture. The net result (whether it be a week or a month) will be that traditional strategies will not be enough to get you ranked well in Yahoo. This isn't a complex concept to understand. You already have dealt with a similar situation before with Google. In the past Yahoo has valued on-page optimization more while Google tends to rely more heavily on links. Yahoo is introducing new variables and tweaking old ones because they feel they can make their results more relevant in time, especially before the retail buying season.

If you don't agree with me, fine. You certainly have a right to your opinion. I really don't care either way. I merely thought that some people would be interested in what is going on since most are fairly clueless.

~SEOGURU~

 

That's why I suggested the CNET site/phrase. I'm not interested in trying to benefit from this, but I would be interested in the results. Can a significant number of links in a very short period have a significant negative impact on the yahoo serps? I honestly don't think it would and haven't seen evidence that would change my mind.

 

CNET is a PR9 site with probably millions of links already, built over years... adding a couple of million more wouldn't drop it from the serps.

 

You are one patronizing SOB. I don't know if you are correct or not but your delivery needs a lot of work. It's difficult to read past your arrogance to get to the content of your message.

 

lol, don't bother, classifieds, that guy is a joke. With his multimillion dollar empire and his "thousands of websites and millions of pages indexed"... lmao

I knew it was just BS when he even invented the charlie stuff.

 

I do see things that jive with what SEO Guru says, so I am very interested in hearing more. However, I hope he offers some specifics and advice about what is going on and how to best react to it because it would be quite arrogant to make those "all-knowing" posts and then go away and hide.

 

Regardless of right or wrong, the results after major updates never come back the same. Most of the information presented in this thread by SEOGuru is somewhat obvious. Yahoo is doing a major re-indexing right now, and with the movement people are seeing, things will come back, but to think they'll be exactly the same is fairly silly.

 

Infiniterb is right, nothing new was put forth. But what got me a little worried was the "this is not a temporary glitch" (I thought he was implying that whatever was happening was over) statement followed by "it takes many iterations, yadayada" followed by "when the dust settles" implying that it wasn't over. That seemed contradictory to me. The bottom line is that whatever is happening is not over yet, thank god, because the crap is still floating at the top. Furthermore, what everyone is will continue to discuss till kingdom come will still be speculation.

 

Out of desperation I guess, Yahoo's ads a lot of "nitty gritty" like music senders and so on, but google is playing "The Waltz" in this business and that will not change in the long run.

Yahoo at its best for the moment is "God" for aunties searching for family and holiday pictures.

When money talks the truth is silent, perhaps Y doesn't have any obligation in written form, - but what about the credibility they are going to lose together with blackpainting the industry as a whole?

 

Three weeks ago, I dropped like a rock from Google with all my co-op weight. Was tempted to blame it on the co-op... Now I'm back like never before... adsense jumped from 130 to 360 in one single day and the data centers are still only half updated. My previous all time one day high in adsense was $291. The present rankings I have in Google IMO are 80% because of the co-op. Another site I'm monitoring (which is using co-op heavily evident from how often their ads are showing) jumped in Google for some unbelievable terms.. ranking number one above aol.com for one of their main keywords!

So, I strongly believe that co-op links are given full credit in Google.. and all the stuff about link churning and penalties is not true at all, as far as Google is concerned.

With the right mixture of an old and established domain, very good 'on-page SEO', hige PR home page links.. one or two high PR site-wides, and massive co-op links, insane rankings can be achieved in Google. This is as true today as it was four months ago.

 

Did anyone see a significant gain in indexed pages last/this week. I saw mine rise on Yahoo from 40 k to 60k. Just wondering whether this might have to do something with the freaking weird serp changes at Yahoo. Is there anyone at this moment that can confirm officially what is going on?

 

I just noticed this and had to share.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=online+poker&sm=Yahoo!+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1

Look at all those quality websites, have a look at #6.

Crafter's Gallery, The

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=online+poker&sm=Yahoo!+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1

Good job yahoo.

 

62 million sites for online poker? Guess Las Vegas and Macau has bought Yahoo.

 

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is number 12 for online poker

 

I'm seeing a similar behaviour to G with Yahoo in that my new site is dropping in the SERPs. Maybe Yahoo is carrying out a similar Sandbox work

 

I think Yahoo has created a sandbox of their own. It looks almost like google did 12 to 16 months ago. I could be wrong and I am not the brightest one here but it looks very familar to googles when they applied the sandbox filter.

 

If you have the money and time to invest in tons of sites, blogs, links etc like suggested: you could get rich in plenty of ways. dont mind SE traffic

I personally dont think anyone could get a website out of Yahoo, when its ranked in their directory. My site was ranked in the directory and #6 on a keyword.

When I add 23k weight it stayed ranked #6 for that keyword. Didnt move a bit. The directory seems powerful in Yahoo to me.

 

http://nl.search.yahoo.com/search?p...TF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t-&fl=0&vc=&x=wrt&meta=vc=

www. onlinepromotie .nl is mine. It got ranked in MSN in 3 days. In Google I bet it hit, or will hit the Sandbox as I gain links fast. In Yahoo I expected it to hit the first results fast, but no. Not yet. Yeah by taking this small experiment into consideration I think they have a Sandbox, as this website is SEO friendly (mambo) and has a few good backlinks from PR5 links, in the coop for 100 links, and gets quality links daily for 21 days streak.