Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by guerilla, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #21
    The War was inevitable due to Germany making too any enemies. The 1871 Franco-German war left France an enemy waiting for a war of revenge. Germany backing Austria in annexing Bosnia-Herzegovina made Russia an enemy. The Anglo-German Naval turned England into another enemy.
     
    bogart, Jun 28, 2008 IP
  2. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #22
    There's no doubt there was lingering resentment among the French, which contributed to the voices gaining ground as WWI neared. I guess we will have to disagree as to which were the most decisive causes.

    In my reading of the period, the unified Germany was itself a serious wrench in the works - if unification had been achieved peacefully, it still represented an end to the traditional state system that had been in place for centuries, with the princes of Germany as chess pieces in a flexible state system. That system ended in 1871, and it wasn't revenge, but what that portended for empire and power, as a result of that unification. We might be saying the same thing, but from a different angle - if as you say, Germany made enemies, I would say it was inevitable, in a zero-sum game, there would be a power grab on the entry of a new player. Nowhere to go but with someone being kicked from the game.

    I think we will agree that if Bismarck was a master, and diplomacies under Bismarckian Germany maintained a precarious peace, the Kaiser was an idiot (read: your mentioned support for Austria's annexation).
     
    northpointaiki, Jun 28, 2008 IP
  3. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #23
    Hah! Well, for one thing I'm getting married in the morning. And un-like the past, I had the greatest bachelor party of all. I sat at the pool all afternoon and listened to great music and laughed and relaxed with two of the greatest guys, the best of friends, my years have ever produced.. Now, is this not old?

    ;)
     
    Dead Corn, Jun 28, 2008 IP
  4. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #24
    Pseudo-History. Revisionist at best.
     
    Dead Corn, Jun 28, 2008 IP
  5. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #25
    Right on the nose. With the exception that I would add to this the entitlement a "Master Race" must enjoy (no matter how short lived) to enable this steam-roller of savagery to be perpetrated against one's neighbors. And the hatred that fueled this all important dynamic was tens of centuries, not decades, in the making.
     
    Dead Corn, Jun 28, 2008 IP
  6. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #26
    Also, Churchill was very funny. Hitler was decidely un-funny. Evil folks just aren't that funny. And very poor company. Just ask Chamberlain.
     
    Dead Corn, Jun 28, 2008 IP
  7. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #27
    Buchanon's assertion that there might not of been a holocost if not for a WWII, that he blames on the Brits is wierd historical twisting at its strangest.

    Buchanon admits that Hitler was anti-semitic, that Mein Kampf was anti-semitic, that actions in Germany prior to WWII were anti-semitic. In fact they were worse. They took a part of German society and degraded them at every opportunity, slowly turning this group into German sub-humans.

    The war did occur, Germany attacked Poland. Germany was a threat to other nations. As the war progressed Germany ultimately turned to a "final solution" killing millions of Jews.

    Hitler's beliefs, writings and actions all led to this result. To try and fantisize some revisionist dream that Hitler and Germany should not be held responsible for this crime against humanity is twisted wierd thinking.

    At any point a half way human response that respected individuals rather than turning one group of people into "the blame for all things wrong" and then killing as many as they could was and is a sick crime.

    Buchanon has gone off the deep end with this thesis. Somewhere between acknowledging Hitler's undeniable anti-semitism and the holocost Buchanon tries to absolve Hitler of a horrible world crime but doesn't come up with anything concrete.

    What is the reason, Pat Buchanon?
     
    earlpearl, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  8. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #28
    The Nazis and Hitler only had 196 seats in the Reichstag of a total of 577 seats when Hitler was appointed Chancelor by Hindenburg. Support for the Nazis was falling. The SPD and KPD had 121 and 100 seats.
     
    bogart, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  9. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #29
    England was anti-semitic, France was anti-semitic and even USA was and and continued to be for many years after WWII an anti-semitic nation.
     
    gworld, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  10. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #30
    GWorld:

    In 1925 and 1926 Hitler published Mein Kampf attacking and blaming the Jews for Germany's problems

    April 1, 1933 Jewish doctors, lawyers, and stores were boycotted in Germany.
    April 7, 1933 Germany passed the "Law for the Retoration of the Professional Civil Servant. banned all Jews from Government jobs.
    May, 1935 Jews banned from joining the army
    Summer, 1935. anti-Jewish propaganda spread in all shops and restaurants
    September, 1935. "Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honor" passed. Prevented marriage between Jews and non Jews.

    Meanwhile Reich Citizenship Law was passed. Declared that all Jews, even 1/2 and 1/4 Jews were no longer citizens of the state. Their official title became "subjects of the state". Essentially Jews were set up for still harsher laws against them.
    1936. Jews were banned from all Professional Jobs in Germany.

    1937 and 1938. Jews were punished financially for their race.
    March 1, 1938 Government contracts were forbidden from being awarded to Jewish businesses.
    September 30, 1938 Aryan doctors were forbidden from treating non Aryans. Since all Jewish doctors were banned, Jews had no access to medical care.
    October 5, 1938 the letter J was assigned and printed on all Jewish passports.
    November 15, 1938 all Jewish children banned from attending public school.
    November 17, 1938. The Night of Broken Glass...Kristallnacht....Jewish store fronts and and shops were smashed and destroyed. An estimated 100 Jews were killed. 20,000 Jews were sent to concentration camps. Hitler ordered this attack but blamed it on the Jews. He fined Jews 1 billion marks and confiscated 20% of all Jews property.

    This all occurred before the start of WWII.

    As I referenced earlier with regard to Buchanon's article. He acknowledged predjudice and hatred toward Jews prior to WWII.

    It is absurd, based on the actions of Hitler prior to WWII to make any assertion other than he was going to kill the Jews.

    And he did it.

    Again I ask, in light of this history why would Buchanon assert such nonsense?
     
    earlpearl, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  11. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #31
    All the dates you have listed are after the Reichtag fire on 27 February 1933 and passage of the Enabling Act on March 23, 1933.

    The enabling act allowed Hitler to declare the Nazi Party the only legal party in Germany and allowed Hitler to combine the office of Chancellor and President after Hindenburg's death. This in effect made Hitler dictator of Germany.

    The Enabling Act (Ermächtigungsgesetz in German) was passed by the Reichstag (Germany's parliament) on March 23, 1933 and signed by President Paul von Hindenburg the same day. It was the second major step, after the Reichstag Fire Decree through which Adolf Hitler obtained plenary powers using legal means. The Act granted the Cabinet of Germany the authority to enact laws without the participation of the Reichstag for four years.
     
    bogart, Jun 29, 2008 IP