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Charlie Hebdo: Prophet Mohamed cartoon published in first magazine edition

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by TopForum.Ir, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. #1
    Charlie Hebdo front cover: Prophet Mohamed cartoon published in first magazine edition since Paris terror attacks

    Source: Independent

    I'm a Muslim and Paris terror attacks made me sad and I hate terrorists. But what's wrong with Mohammed Prophet? It's insulting Muslim's beliefs, not freedom, literally.
     
    TopForum.Ir, Jan 14, 2015 IP
  2. britishguy

    britishguy Prominent Member

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    #2
    My feelings are that DP is no place to discuss such an emotive subject...

    Threads like this have only one exit strategy namely that the subject gets loaded with vitriol and abuse... then gets deleted!!

    Surely, what is the point in going through all that sh1t!!!
     
    britishguy, Jan 14, 2015 IP
  3. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #3
    Technically I'm a Christian but struggle with much of what is claimed in the modern bible - virgin birth, really? all those miracles, really? be nice, don't sin, that works for me just fine.

    Growing up there seemed to be an endless flow of jokes like "3 men die and turn up at the Pearly Gates and St Peter asks them one question...". As a kid at school if someone didn't want to share he would be told not to be such a Jew. We mess something up and exclaim "Jesus fucking Christ". We joke that when we die we don't want to go to Heaven because we'd miss all our friends (implying they won't make it to Heaven in the first place). All disrespectful but common enough.

    We watched a rerun of "Friends" the other day where Ross dressed up as the Hanukkah Armadillo and Monica, who is Jewish, was busy making Xmas cookies. At best this showed that the two religions could co-exist, at worst it ran rough-shod over the vast chasm that separates the two.

    I look forward to the day when teddy bears can be named "Mohammed" without fear of retribution - after all there seems to be no comeback on some of the scammers with that name who have passed through this forum. I look forward to the day when a cartoon by one about the other just makes the other go "Huh, is that how they see us, odd that they find that funny" and that they are self assured enough to accept the point of difference as just that, to accept the joke as a joke and not an insult. After all, you can't be insulted if you aren't ashamed in the first place.
     
    sarahk, Jan 14, 2015 IP
  4. rsrikanth05

    rsrikanth05 Well-Known Member

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    #4
    rsrikanth05, Jan 14, 2015 IP
    matt_62 likes this.
  5. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #5
    Hardly a mature response.

    My kids are worth killing for but until there is a credible threat I'm not going to.

    I would suggest that there is no credible threat to the faith of any Muslim by some silly cartoons that they are not obliged to read.
     
    sarahk, Jan 14, 2015 IP
  6. TopForum.Ir

    TopForum.Ir Active Member

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    #6
    I'm not radical Muslim but I can't agree with some of your words @sarahk. If Christians make joke by "Jesus ****ing Christ", doesn't mean Muslims have to accept jokes from our Prophet!
     
    TopForum.Ir, Jan 14, 2015 IP
  7. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #7
    It does actually, but if you want change it means that education is needed, not violence. Education increases empathy, understanding and respect. Violence decreases all 3.

    If I think somebody is a fat slob that's my business. If they want to change my opinion of them they either have to educate me about why it's not a bad thing to be a fat slob or show that despite appearing to be a fat slob they're actually energetic and tidy. Punching me isn't going to make me change my mind.
     
    sarahk, Jan 14, 2015 IP
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  8. TopForum.Ir

    TopForum.Ir Active Member

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    #8
    I know what you mean. But true Muslims won't change people's mind by pressure or killing or kind of happening we all heard from Paris. Only terrorists do these stupid stuff.

    It's all about RESPECT...

    Nowadays, some people ruins Islam and Muslim. I think all religions can have peaceful life if they go in their way and don't hurt others for what they believe or not believe. For e.g. I have Christian, Catholic, Jew, Hindu friends I don't ask them or change their idea/beliefs about some stuff. Cause it's none of my business. I just move on my way.
     
    TopForum.Ir, Jan 15, 2015 IP
    sarahk likes this.
  9. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Sorry, but I don't understand your question, or is it a question and a statement? Are you saying insulting Mohammed is not a freedom (that free citizens should have)? Or was it a question about what is wrong with the prophet Mohammed? Both? Did you have a problem with Charlie Hebdo's most recent cover?


    Just curious. Where do you feel is the right place to discuss emotive subjects? In the privacy of your home with your family?

    Your post reminds me of the role the US media recently played in this whole saga. 12 people died because a group of people took offense at something they put to print. The US media largely covered the story without ever displaying what all the fuss was about (any Charlie Hebdo artwork). The message is, we need to "get over" the issues that we shall neither name nor discuss.

    Its a bit like talking about Trayvon Martin while ignoring the fact 50% of the homicides in the US are perpetrated by black people against other black people,. Oh no, lets focus on whether George Zimmerman had racial animus. because discussing the genocide communities of color are committing against each other in the US might offend communities of color.
     
    Obamanation, Jan 15, 2015 IP
  10. MrPJH

    MrPJH Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Responding to the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris, Pope Francis said there are limits to freedom of speech when it comes to insulting someone's faith.

    "If my good friend Dr. Gasbarri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said half-jokingly, throwing a mock punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."

    Source

    Sarahk as a Muslim we are told that Esa ibne Maryam (PBUH) will com again and we advised to follow them so please your such jokes hurt Muslims in same as for Muhammad (PBUH)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
    MrPJH, Jan 16, 2015 IP
    TopForum.Ir likes this.
  11. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #11
    The question was really for "TopForumJr", but since you replied I have to point out that you didn't answer the question. The new cover of Charlie Hebdo didn't make fun of Mohammad at all. It simply had a picture with the caption "All is forgiven". Do you have a problem with that?

    In regard to your reply, is it legal to punch someone who says a curse word against your mother where you live? In America, that is called assault and battery, and will land you in jail.
     
    Obamanation, Jan 16, 2015 IP
  12. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #12
    1. I never made a joke
    2. as a citizen of the world you need to understand that not everyone has had the same indoctrination as you and if they say something that you find harmful it may not be their intent. I could talk for hours about things that people in my city do that I find degrading and insulting but I appreciate that they don't have the same values as me and I get over it. Are their values more important - or are mine? Answer - neither.
    And I see that you don't address the issue of why jokes harm Muhammad when theft and wrong doing by people with that name don't.
     
    sarahk, Jan 16, 2015 IP
  13. MrPJH

    MrPJH Well-Known Member

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    #13
    Do you allow any one can say curse word against your mother ?
    what will you do then ?
    suppose you go to court and court says he is free to say anything in name of freedom of
    speech.
    punching is crime then the thing encouraged me to punch you ???

    it do not harm Muhammad it harms the followers of Muhammad
    its All about Respect
    your jokes helping terrorists to get more self blasters
    we are arresting and hanging terrorists but these jokes are big hurdles
    in your city you saw a lot of insulting you ignore we also do so but if someone insult directly you or your faith then ?
    or lets say we should ignore then lets ignore insulting and murders too against these insults.
    we give respect and request for respect

    we request that please don't support terrorists
    Please help us hanging terrorists or at least don't through more hurdles in our way
     
    MrPJH, Jan 17, 2015 IP
  14. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #14
    Does a pretty girl dressed in a beautiful dress encourage men to rape her? Is she partially to blame for her rape, or is the rape the fault of the man who couldn't control himself?


    Often young women who marry the wrong man, or have sex outside of marriage are murdered by their fathers or brothers in the name of honor.

    Are the activities of those women hurdles to the authorities who are trying to stop honor killings? Do they need to stop having sex outside of marriage or marrying the wrong men to help the law keep those fathers and brothers under control?
     
    Obamanation, Jan 17, 2015 IP
  15. MrPJH

    MrPJH Well-Known Member

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    #15
    we hanged 20 terrorists and counting we are working on our side
    a recent news is Belgium have deployed soldiers in streets most other European countries going to do so OK fine publish insults and taste how we are growing since last 50 years under shadows of weapons
    A lot of churches burned in Niger
    i don't understand how you tied a beautiful dressed girl with faith
    Islam clearly says if you see such which appeals go at your home and have sex with your wife you can have wives as many as you can afford
    Why not if you want to make jokes go at home joke on your mother................... i am sorry for my last line
     
    MrPJH, Jan 17, 2015 IP
  16. MrPJH

    MrPJH Well-Known Member

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    #16
    i was studying bible and in chapter ruth for some of Christians it could be just a story however comparing to Islam regarding Family system Honor and Respect i found bible give much Honor and respect
     
    MrPJH, Jan 17, 2015 IP
  17. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #17
    Simple. You implied publishing a picture of Mohammed "encourages" people (Muslims) to punch those who publish them. It implies that some of the blame for those attacks falls on those who were attacked, rather than the attackers.
    It is no different than saying, "That girl wore a provocative dress, so it is partially her fault that she was raped". Its called blaming the victim. It is the type of reasoning that has women in some countries dressed like this:

    [​IMG]

    or this
    [​IMG]

    If you think the people at Charlie Hebdo are responsible for their own deaths, for doing something that harmed nobody, something socially acceptable in their culture (they don't live in Pakistan), you are blaming the victims, aren't you?
     
    Obamanation, Jan 17, 2015 IP
  18. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #18
    In NZ we'd work out if you were just cursing for the sake of it and you'd lose our respect.
    If you actually meant it we'd consider if your cursing was justified and we may commiserate.
    If it wasn't justified then we'd probably ask you to leave and if that didn't work then a hiding may be in order.
     
    sarahk, Jan 17, 2015 IP
  19. MrPJH

    MrPJH Well-Known Member

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    #19
    staff of magazine is not responsible for their death
    our main concern is PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't put lives in danger of Christians living as minority in some countries
    Regarding freedom of speech a US newspaper was forced to publish apologies on publishing a joke cartoon upon Indian Space program
    and these are also Muslim women
    [​IMG]
    Photo AP source BBC
     
    MrPJH, Jan 17, 2015 IP
  20. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #20
    Glad to see you feel the murderers are responsible for their own actions. Followup question:

    How could publishing cartoons put someone's life in danger? If someone is going to murder Christians living in "some countries" because they are offended by something someone in another country does, do you think it is the responsibility of those people not to offend the murderers?
     
    Obamanation, Jan 19, 2015 IP