I had a heated debate with GTech yesterday (maybe you've heard of him? ) concerning Canada's role in Iraq today, and I would like to know how people around the world feel about my country's activity there. To be clear, Canada has ZERO affiliation with the initial invasion and the war itself. Our peace keepers are there as they always have been, helping to rebuild and train Iraqi soldiers and police, giving aid to those drafting laws and amendments, etc. I'm personally very proud of the men and women who have risked their lives to aid people who are in such dire need, and I think they've done an excellent job of helping the Iraqi people to clean up the mess left by insurgents, dictators, civil unrest, and the United States. Thoughts?
I am Canadian myself and I am against Canada being in Afghanistan or Iraq as long these countries are occupied. It doesn't matter what our goals are, the world will see us as USA's puppet in that area and that image will not serve our national interests. People in most of the world are positive toward Canada and we should use our advantage to increase our trades with these countries instead of getting involved in the wars.
I strongly disagree with your thoughts on Iraq and mildly disagree with your thoughts on Afghanistan. Here's why: I think that you're right about the risk we place our reputation in while we continue to provide aid in Iraq, but there are two strong reasons why we should be there: - We are helping the people of that war-torn country to remove the shackles of oppression and begin to really live. I think any risk is worth the cause. - I think most of the word knows that the U.S. in the gang leader and the U.K. is the added enforcer. After all this time, any misconceptions about Canada's role in Iraq have been removed. Besides, we were there before the war; how humane would it be to simply leave the people of Iraq in the hands of the Americans? As far as Afghanistan goes, I resent the fact that we are occupying (and we are, in a sense). On the other hand, we really have made great strides there in our humanitarian efforts. I look forward to 2009 when we can finally bring our soldiers home, regardless. NOTE: Macleans had an excellent article about the advances in Afghanistan in last week's issue. Definitely worth a read if you haven't yet.
According to who? There is as much killing and may be more, torture , political prisoners and corruption as previous regime. The names of players is changed, the game remains the same.
Honestly, you're right; I can't argue that fact. I guess I'm exalting our intentions as opposed to actual results. We can agree that we aren't hurting anyone by being over there, except maybe ourselves via our international reputation?
NO, we can't agree. While in a couple of years Harper will land an over paid job in UN after quiting as prime minister, our soldiers who were killed by insurgents or American friendly fire will still be dead. I don't think the war is harmless to them or their family. Can we guaranty that a 20 years old kid who has put in a war condition will not go Rambo and open fire on Civilians? There is always risk with wars and we should accept it if it is OUR war but there is no reason for our country to take this kind of risks to our reputation and military because we want to serve USA.
I'm no Harper fan, so I won't argue with you there. But to date only 5 Canadians have been killed in Iraq in comparison to the many millions who have been aided in some way by our presence there. We may not be able to make great strides, but $300 million dollars and so many Canadians offering aid is helping people. No, we can't guarantee that in Iraq, but we can't guarantee that in life in general. Concern that someone may go crazy is no reason not to offer aid to those in need. And, to be clear, nothing even similar to that has happened. No matter Harper's reasoning for sending troops (and I agree that his reasoning is flawed), we are doing good things for people who deserve it.
Iraqis want troops out all foreign troops out of Iraq now. Iraq is in a worst state in many respects than it is now. If the US really wanted to get rid of a dictator and help people (as they so often say) then what happened to Zimbabwe?? Canada probably wants a share of the oil which is understandable in today's world. On the world stage, I don't think that Canada is seen of as a terrorist like the neighbour (USA) but by being in Iraq it could lead to resentment of Canada by Iraqis, Muslims in general and the rest of the common sense thinking world. It is understandable that they are there though - somebody has to clean up the US mess.
You're wrong on several points here: one, there aren't Canadian troops in Iraq except those there to privately train Iraqi police and soldiers. Canadian troops are not active militarily anywhere within Iraq. Canada has no need for oil from the middle east; we have our own. Based on current developments in the Alberta oil sands, the AEUB estimates that by 2016 Alberta oil sands production will triple to amount to 86% of the province's total oil production, and Alberta will by then be one of the largest oil producers in the world.
We have suffered attacks of terrorism, but not at the hands of Al-Qaeda or any other Muslim group. An apparent mass attack by a Muslim group was stopped in Ontario last year, but that is the closest we've come to anything similar to the World Trade Center attacks.
Why should we take a risk when we will not gain anything as a nation? People only take a risk when there is a reward and not for nothing. How are we helping anyone who is in need by serving Americans in this war? Aren't we actually hurting those in need by helping to prolong this war?
Of course we should do it for no gain; that is the basis of humanitarian aid. We do it because it's the right thing to do. And again, our role in Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with serving Americans.
I was not talking about the aid, I was talking about putting our soldiers and our reputation in danger for no good reason. You have already admitted that the situation in Iraq is as bad as before or may be even worse, so how did we help? What is our role in Iraq? Who are we helping in Iraq? Are we helping Iraq government which has a bunch of bank fraudsters, thieves and oil and drug smugglers as the leaders and have already signed away the right to Iraq oil for next 25-40 years to American companies? Are we helping a government that uses hit squads to kill the opposition and tortures the prisoners? How does helping such a corrupt government is going to help the needy in Iraq?
Countless Iraqis have been aided by Canadians throughout this struggle and they are on camera every day to tell you. All of the points you make about the war itself and the Iraqi government are true, but that doesn't mean that the forgotten civilians don't deserve schools, usable roadways and a police service that can protect them.
Nobody said that we shouldn't help. There are over a million refugee from Iraq, we can take some of them. There are different help organizations both UN and private, we can send food, clothes, medicine and money. All these thing are very different than sending military and having a military involvement in this war. Military involvement in this conflict will just make us look like USA's puppet and helps no needy but it will endanger our reputation and national security.
The only thing that we're doing that could be classified as anything military is helping to train their soldiers and local police force. That seems to me to be a democratic and humane line of work, and it rests well among the countless other services we're offering to the Iraqi people. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one; we seem to agree mostly on the facts and less on the context, so we're hitting a bit of a stalemate
Can't you understand what Palsys is trying to tell you ? Yes, it is quite a risk, but doing what your country does is not endangering your reputation and national security - it is noble and generous. Your soldiers are sent to Iraq to HELP people, and i'm sure it is very rewarding for them. They do something for a good cause, you should respect that and be proud. And i don't know if everyone is considering Canada as USA's puppet - is it only you ?
Are these the same soldiers and police force which is part of hit squads and torture prisoners? What are these soldiers trained for? killing the enemies of present Iraq government, it is interesting that you call such "training" humane line of work. If you are really concerned with helping the needy in Iraq, there is 1000 different ways to do it without military involvement but if you want to use it as an excuse to justify our military involvement in those conflicts then that is another matter. I do not feel that we need to participate in this war and make ourselves a target just because Bush and friends like to steal Iraq's oil for the next 25-40 years.