Can you have the same keyword twice in the same Ad Group? (Phrase + Exact match)

Yes... Exact will always override broad or phrase.

 

the official line is that the most restrictive match type triggers the ad, but I've tested this from a number of angles, and my experience is the most costly keyword type triggers the ad, regardless of matchtype. you can override this using embedded exact match negatives, but otherwise google will show the most lucrative option with the best history, not the most restrictive type.

my evidence for this is that you can look at the search query report, and see that broad match is triggering for the same exact phrase, despite the presence of exact match.

i may be wrong, of course. has anyone else tested this?

with regards to ctr for different match types, in some cases the exact match can be lower, especially for short tail high volume keywords, so spreading the matchtypes across ad groups can help determine if this is the case, but this is only a short term strategy and is only viable if you have high volume.

 

If we used all 3 match types for each keyword, wouldn’t it be like competing with yourself? If we do so, do we have to pay more for those keywords compared to, for instance, if we only use the broad match?

 

not sure about this one, but my guess is no. My thinking is that you can make sure you're not competing by using appropriate negatives to ensure only one of your match types enters the auction. If you don't use negatives, I'm fairly sure only one match type will compete, and which one depends on history/ad performence. the disadvantage being that clicks are spread over more ads

 

You won't be competing against yourself, since only your keyword with the best QS and match type will be submitted to the auction - you'll always pay the minimum that you can.

 

As covered. Exact match ALWAYS overides the other 2 match types. It's even been documented by Google themselves.

If you have:

[widgets]
"widgets"
widgets

and somebody types in widgets the exact match for widgets will always be triggered - regardless of QS and CTR etc.

Exact overides Phrase match & Broad match
Phrase overides Broad as well.

 

Google say a lot of things!

has anyone else tested this? perhaps my testing method is flawed.

 

Well... I have in many cases in my account something like [blue widgets] and blue widgets (sometimes "blue widgets" as well) and the broad match rarely gets any impressions let alone clicks ... upon checking my StatCounter logs, the only time the broad match is triggered is when they have added something such as 'blue and black widgets' .... whenever they type in 'blue widgets' its my exact match keyword which is triggered.

Go figure.

I'm confident to say if you have 3 keywords all the same (just the match type thats different), if someone types it in exactly, it will ALWAYS be your exact matched keyword which is triggered - unless of course, your exact is paused and the other 2 aren't - then in that case your phrase match will be triggered.

 

Fair enough, I'm certainly not 100% sure on this one, so I'm definitely going to take another look.

Over the next couple of days I will set up a couple of experiments for the sole purpose of testing this and post the results here. My method will be to set up three adgroups with identical ads .

One adgroup with

widgits ** 1

another with

widgits and sauce ** 0.75

and another adgroup with

[widgets and sauce] ** 0.40

and see which adgroup gets the most impressions for the search query "widgits and sauce".

Acorrding to google, the impressions for the search query should go to exact.
If the broad match does get impressions, my guess is that this is becuase the exact match bid doesn't make it into the auction.

So I will do a second experiment where I pick a broad match term with history, and set up an adgroup with just this term as exact match, with identical bids, and see what happens.

Does this sound like a fair test? Feel free to suggest alternative conditions.

 

"If the broad match does get impressions, my guess is that this is becuase the exact match bid doesn't make it into the auction."


Not really ... it might be getting impressions because people are searching for 'widgits and sauce in Barbados' for example.

The only sure way would be to check it out at the end of the day and see if something like this has happened -

the broad match has had 1 click
the exact match hasnt had any ...

but upon checking your logs you see someones search query was exactly 'wigits and sauce'.

I'll put my money on this not happening though ... if someone does search exactly for 'wigits and sauce' it will trigger your exact match regardless of any max bid, CTR or QS.

 

Sure, fair point, but just to be clear, when I am looking into what triggers the borad match, I am looking at the exact search phrase, not the keyword that triggered the search query .

Sorry if I appear confrontational, I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it, but this will be the third time I've done this experiment, and I'm starting to doubt my methodology so Im going to do it again publically, just to make triple sure, so that flaws in my method can be identified.

I first noticed this when I was examining an account where different match types were segregated at the campaign level, so it was really obvious when looking at the search query report that some really simple short tail terms were allocated to the broad campaign, despite the terms being present in the exact match campaign, sometimes with compariable or higher max bids.

 

No problem, I like to get to the bottom of things as well.


"I first noticed this when I was examining an account where different match types were segregated at the campaign level, so it was really obvious when looking at the search query report that some really simple short tail terms were allocated to the broad campaign, despite the terms being present in the exact match campaign, sometimes with compariable or higher max bids.

Any chance the campaigns had different budgets? So that when the broad match was triggered, this was because the exact match in the other campaign was actually offline?

This is the link to the Google help centre who themselves state what I've said above:
http://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66292

"The more restrictive match type will always trigger the ad, regardless of CPC bids. For instance, if the broad-matched keyword apple and the exact-matched keyword apple both existed in your account, the exact match would always trigger an ad

 

That is a very good point, i hadn't thought that the exact campaign may have depleted its budget. This may well be the answer, we shall find out tomorrow when I repeat the same experiment at the ad group level.

re help center, I know the article but the reason I am skeptical is that from a revenue point of view, why would google choose the exact match version with a 0.10 bid and low CTR if a broad match option exists with good history and a 1.00 max cpc? I guess I am too suspicous.

 

"re help center, I know the article but the reason I am skeptical is that from a revenue point of view, why would google choose the exact match version with a 0.10 bid and low CTR if a broad match option exists with good history and a 1.00 max cpc? I guess I am too suspicous"

I guess because it makes life easier for us and because its more relevant to the searcher. If it makes life easier for us, then it means in the long run we can bring in more money for Google - if it's a pain in the backside we are going to have less joy and so will they. I don't know, only they know the answer to that one.

Yahoo Search Marketing, unfortunately, aren't this clever and they seem to 'include' listings that they feel are relevant - even when its an exact match. I just wish they were as clever as Google, but that's another story.

 

I have tested this theory thousands of times and our proprietary tracking system also shows us very clearly if an exact match is ever mapped to a broad.

Out of 100 click maybe 1 or 2 clicks get mapped to broad.

The reasoning behind it? Not really sure, but according to my google reps they say it happens when the auction needs to make a quick decision and just picks whatever.

 

too early to tell, but yes it looks like you were right muchacho79, the exact match budget must have run out. Thanks a lot for the clarification

 

If this pricing model existed then there would be no reason to use any other match type then broad.

Google rewards for relevancy and their business model (other than making tones of cash) is to provide a high user experience to ensure their visitors return.

They believe that exact match will always provide the user with the most relevant experience because you are directly targeting that keyword, therefore the visitor will probably enjoy google more and return more often for providing a more relevant search result than some blan broad match with a generic text ad that applies to all variations.

While Google take a hit and doesn't get to charge you $1 vs 0.10 they get to keep their web visitor loyal, which is a higher payout than charging you $1 per click and losing the visitor for life.