99% of the Turkish population is Moslem. The remaining is composed of Orthodox Christians, Gregorian Christians, Catholic, Suryani and Protestant Christians, and Jews. Although most of the population is Moslem, Turkey is a secular country and everyone has freedom of religion and beliefs. No one can be forced to participate in religious ceremonies or rites against their will and no blame can be attached to anyone because of their beliefs. The 600 years Islamic reigned Ottoman empire collapsed in the 1920's and after the independence war leaded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk the principle of secularism introduced to the Turkish people...
I never cease to be amazed at peoples ability to maintain their beliefs in the presence of overwhelming contradictory evidence.
Edz is right. There are certain restrictions on the freedom of speech in Turkey, it's sill to deny it. But, there are a few thing that I would like to add: 1. The same problem exists in Baltic countries, Poland and Romania and they are already in the Block (Romania will join in 2007). It's not like all EU members have Danish standards or smth. 2. There have been considerable improvements in human rights recently including in those related to the freedom of expression. So, the tendency is in the good direction. Joining EU will only enhance and accelerate these changes. I don't think the freedom of speech is the main obstacle in Turkey's EU bid, there are much more serious matters to worry about like high population (70M), being a Muslim country, lower economic standards than most EU members as well as immediate borders with Iran, Iraq, Syria (!!!). Who wants such neighbors? Nobody, thats who...
Same here Will. In Leet's case it's pure shame he has to admit he was wrong. Lack of character i suppose......
How did you come up with that? We're discussing here, not harassing other members, and he can't say pure shame about me.. But as I know from the past situations, you have a great ability like understanding words from somewhere else than your ears..
No, I don't think so: It doesn't get any clearer than this. So, now, Perhaps you could clarify your meaning.
So how's that related with this topic now, what's the point of you coming up with something happened in the past? It was something happened in the past, and all misunderstanding. What are you trying to do now, teasing me ? I will report you for this..
I've already done I wanted him not to harass me. I already explained what I meant by that the message below but I guess you couldn't understand, I understand why though..
Your "explanation," as best as I can tell, consists of: In the past, you indicated you would withdraw your death threat on another member on the condition she apologizes to you; this is patently out of the realm of acceptability, and your posts above seem to me to be in the same vein. Personally, I don't understand why you are allowed on this board, but it's not my call. I have reported your post as well, and the mods will decide what's best.
So stop trashing the topic, and let them decide, you're only a member and your thoughts are nothing more than crap for me.
Really? I'm crushed. Your posts are so well reasoned, you're opinion of me matters a good deal. I do have a problem with someone making death threats on another over words. Beyond a lack of courage, I find it deeply offensive and worthy of the ban you earned, which I would think warrants a permanent ban - particularly as you seem, in my reading of it, to be continuing with the tack of threats against those who don't agree with you. But you are quite right - I am not a mod, only a member, and this is their call.
I have indeed chosen my words carefully. It takes a man to admit he made a mistake. You are evidently in denial about the freedom your Government allows to their media. It appears you feel shame about something. A: embarrassed about your Government suppression of freedom of speech or... B: you are embarrassed you thought you know it better then me as you bravely posted but then with the evidence put forward you are proven wrong. I think B is the main reason for your denial Leet. And regarding "do not pass over the border.." What do you mean by this Leet? What is that border? And i am not harassing you, that is a false statement, you choose to engage the discussion yourself with me by replying to my post. If you can not handle being proven wrong then it's not in your nature to engage in discussions. And this certainly is the case if you feel shame if you are proven wrong.
Your proof is not reliable for me. You haven't lived here, and you are only learning from media, you cannot know what or who to believe.. I wouldn't believe BBC since I have my own eyes. They're only releasing bad things, never good things. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying what I'm seeing here in Turkey, and if you think I'm not objective because I'm Turkish, that's a wrong statement. I might be wrong also, because like I said, you can't know what to believe.. But what I think is our media is free, there might be some exceptions of course.. @northpointaiki; No, your problem is in your mind.
Yes, I'm sure you're right. Which is why you were banned, of course. At any rate, outside of threats, the discussion parameters are fairly wide, something I appreciate about this forum.
It's a fact, accept it. You can deny it did not happen but it did and perhaps still does! So the case of Orhan Pamuk is not true Leet? The BBC makes this up? Is this your defense? You have your own eyes but you don't WANT to believe what you see. If you really want to know the truth and are not afraid to what you are going to find then why not check out other sources that is not coming from the BBC but from a well respected and watched Turkish news provider. Once again i present hard evidence of your Goverments suppression of freedom of speech. Would you like to say it's not true again? Not reliable? Yeah, Bad bad media...always bad and never good news. No of course you are saying you are not right because you are wrong Leet. Accept it There is no shame in being wrong, it happens to all of us at some point in time It's the same that you don't need to feel shame for asking a question about something you don't know. Bilmemek ayip degil, sormamak ayip. No, it is better said that you don't KNOW what is happening in YOUR own country...evidently. You did not even once acknowledge the fact that the case of Orhan Pamuk is a fact and indeed happend or other cases i have shown you. All you said was it was unreliable Have you not paid any attention to what is going on in your country and what is being reported on the news. News sources that if you care to pay attention to what is going on, you could not have missed this event? Orhan Pamuk is one of the biggest freedom of speech events that has happened in Turkey but you chose the path of denial. Why Leet? Neden? Do you feel shame for being wrong because you did not know about this or for your government? You might? You are positively wrong Leet. There are cases of suppression and that is one of the reasons Turkey has been denied to be a part of the European Union. Exceptions? Exactly my point, there are cases of suppression by your government as i have pointed out and have provided evidence of. But hey, that's unreliable right
If you used Orhan Pamuk there about so called Armenian genocide, then yes the case of Orhan Pamuk is not true. We've been offering to release our historical archives about Armenians for many years, and want the same from Armenia, but they can never do it, and they never did it. Because they already know they're wrong, and if they release their archives then they will lose the biggest trump they have against Turkey. What Orhan Pamuk did is not freedom of speech, it's betraying the homeland you ate bread and drank water of. And if what you call freedom of speech is betraying your own country, then yes, we don't have freedom of speech here. It should be "Bilmemek ayıp değil, öğrenmemek ayıp." In my opinion Orhanius Pamukyan is the worst stateless I've ever seen. By the way, in Turkey most people don't want EU..