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Can I only increase my QS by running at a high CPC initially?

Discussion in 'Google AdWords' started by MistyGirl2000, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. #1
    OK - so I started a brand new account at my company just over a week ago. Loaded in a fair number of terms and ran for a day before everything was hit with a poor QS. I deleted all the keywords from the account. Our landing page has all the requisite links to FAQs, contact us, privacy policy and T&Cs. I had Google suggest keywords in their tool based on them crawling the landing page and I picked the single one most relevant to what we do. I added that in a new camapign and ad group in broad, phrase and exact match. It immediately went to poor QS and I can only run it if I bid $10.00 cpc.

    I know that having no history is part of the problem and the fact that my CTR in the first day I ran was low because I had too many competitive terms. Is the only way to improve the QS now to run at the $10.00 and hope that this term (since it is so relevant) gets a good enough CTR that I can then lower the bid? We've already made all the changes we can think of to the landing page and I really don't think that is the issue here.

    Thanks for any advice!

    P.S. The site I'm asking about is not one of the ones in my sig and I can't really reveal it here.
     
    MistyGirl2000, Oct 14, 2008 IP
  2. GuyFromChicago

    GuyFromChicago Permanent Peon

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    #2
    CTR in relation to determining the quality score is normalized by ad position. The "bid higher to increase my QS then lower my bids strategy" doesn't work.
     
    GuyFromChicago, Oct 14, 2008 IP
  3. CustardMite

    CustardMite Peon

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    #3
    I would add that on occasion, where an advert has dropped off the first page, its Quality Score has suffered as a result (of a lower clickthrough rate on page 2), and increasing the bid on a temporary basis has repaired the Quality Score, so that I could reduce the bids back to their former levels, and remain on page 1.

    But as GFC says, this won't work in general.

    It's unlikely that a $10 minimum bid (or first page bid) would be caused by a lack of account history. What recommendations do you get if you click on the question mark next to the keyword(s)?
     
    CustardMite, Oct 15, 2008 IP
  4. godmode

    godmode Well-Known Member

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    #4
    Actually I think differently. It all depends on your niche and competition. C

    Consider a niche with minimum CPC of $1+ to stay on first page but still not enough to stay at 1-3. You will need to bid up like $2-$3 to get top 3 position.

    If you starting off with a campaign, start bidding high so you remain on TOP. Take some losses initially, remember its helping you coz u will get some good CTR and some conversions too.

    Secondly over about 1 month time, you would notice adwords is charging you less. Take those numbers as your starting point and lower your bids to match average CPC. Slowly go down. This was i managed to lower all my bids and still dominate top 3 position.

    Of course there are many more things I do, which i dont want to disclose or reveal here:D
     
    godmode, Oct 15, 2008 IP
    imnajam likes this.
  5. Rockstar82

    Rockstar82 Peon

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    #5
    @guyfromchicago How do you know this? Do you have data on the CTR discount per position? What if your particular niche is underestimated and the difference per position is bigger..?
     
    Rockstar82, Oct 15, 2008 IP
  6. Adriaan1985

    Adriaan1985 Peon

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    #6
    You might want to consider to use DKI and pick several relevant keywords and put them in your ad group.
    Also work on the quality of your adcreations.
     
    Adriaan1985, Oct 15, 2008 IP
  7. GuyFromChicago

    GuyFromChicago Permanent Peon

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    #7
    Do you understand what normalized by ad position means? Of course you get a higher CTR in higher positions...and so does everyone else in those positions. CTR for determining the QS takes your position into consideration. Bidding high to get a good QS is a complete waste of $$$.

    How do I know what, that CTR for determining the QS is normalized by ad position? It was part of a Q&A slide from the Google team I saw at one point, and, my experiences have reinforced it.
     
    GuyFromChicago, Oct 15, 2008 IP
  8. www.buxincome.com

    www.buxincome.com Guest

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    #8
    As mentioned above I think you need to look at other factors and not just bump up your price believing it will fix everything. Google aint stupid, they want ads that are relevant to what people are searching for and hence click on. I can understand that having your ad near the top means more clicks but if it was that simple... :)
     
    www.buxincome.com, Oct 15, 2008 IP
  9. shrkscn

    shrkscn Peon

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    #9
    with a high bid you may be able to improve your CTR, but not the quality score.... Yes for calculating the CPC the QS and CTR will be taken into consideration... But then just raising the CPC does not help.... sound slike you have been slapped by google. Just google for adwords quality score checklist and ensure you have followed all....
     
    shrkscn, Oct 15, 2008 IP
  10. MistyGirl2000

    MistyGirl2000 Peon

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    #10
    I thought I'd give a quick update on this. I did in fact take the most relevant keywords to my site and bid the $10.00 CPC just to get the ads running. The CTR was great and lo and behold my quality score started improving and the first page bid estimate started dropping. Now my bid is below $0.50. And I've been able to add more keywords without the $10 slap anymore. Looks like the account is on the road to recovery...thank goodness!

    Thank you for the insight here everyone!
     
    MistyGirl2000, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  11. bjewelled

    bjewelled Peon

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    #11
    Interesting. The implication is that the answer to your original question, "Can I only increase my QS by running at a high CPC initially?" is yes but I have to question that. Perhaps, with the new QS system this high opening bid scenario is a side-effect for new accounts? However, my feeling is that the improvement in QS is probably more related to relevance, ad text, landing page, etc. etc. - I have too many QS 9 & 10 keywords with low (even 0%) CTR to believe that CTR is a particularly weighty factor in QS.
     
    bjewelled, Nov 6, 2008 IP
  12. Baobab

    Baobab Peon

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    #12
    @ MistyGirl2000

    How long did you run your campaign(s) at $10/click and did you do anything else besides pay the high $10/click to get your CPC to $0.50?

    Did it take you days or weeks? Also, had you made any changes to your landing page/site during this $10/click period that could have resulted in a better QS therefore lower CPC?

    Thanks
     
    Baobab, Nov 17, 2008 IP
  13. MistyGirl2000

    MistyGirl2000 Peon

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    #13
    It took only a day or two for the bids to start coming down and I didn't pay for too many clicks because I took the absolute most relevant keywords first and only paid $10 on those (they didn't have huge volume). Then the QS started to improve on other closely related keywords in the same ad group without me even touching them. Then it started to improve in other ad groups. I didn't change the landing page at all during all this time but Google never identified a problem with the landing page anyway. I have now gradually added more and more keywords in tightly grouped campaigns and ad groups. Almost all my keywords are now rated OK with many at 7/10 (on the verge of being Great). I really just had to bite the bullet to get things going but again I only raised the bids on 2-3 of my most relevant keywords. The CTRs were upwards of 20% which meant Google immediately saw they were relevant and improved the QS. Hope this helps!
     
    MistyGirl2000, Nov 17, 2008 IP
  14. GuyFromChicago

    GuyFromChicago Permanent Peon

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  15. bjewelled

    bjewelled Peon

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    #15
    Seems to support my theory that the excessively high bid is a new account phenomenon. The bids settle down once Google has crawled your site and worked out your position in the great scheme of things.

    My experience suggests that if a word is relevant it is relevant irrespective of CTR (e.g. QS10 with 0%CTR), equally if a word is irrelevant then it will never get a good QS no matter what the CTR (e.g. QS2 with CTR over 1%)
     
    bjewelled, Nov 18, 2008 IP
  16. Baobab

    Baobab Peon

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    #16
    Good points all!

    I think I'm slowly but surely getting the idea behind achieving a good QS. Sounds like landing page really should only be considered landing site and full of relevant keyword-rich content.

    Probably not that simple but hey, at least it doesn't seem like such a mystery to me now.

    Cheers
     
    Baobab, Nov 18, 2008 IP
  17. JHardy_WV

    JHardy_WV Peon

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    #17
    I know this is a bit of an old thread, and I totally agree with bjewelled and guyfromchicago, but google really don't help matters. Below is a quote from an email I received in the last 8 weeks from one of the Google optimisation team:

    "Raising CPCs to the levels suggested by the system should also improve click-through rates and all-round performance of the ad group, the key factors in determining quality score."

    Now if that's not misleading I don't know what is...
     
    JHardy_WV, May 21, 2009 IP