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Can anyone explain to me why?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Valley, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. #1
    I understand why NATO UK and USA are interested in countries like Iraq etc with oil. Same with Somalia.
    But please explain to me why every western Government is interested in
    Afghanistan.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6854507.ece
    SEMrush
    Theres no oil
    Theres no Gold or diamonds
    Just goats and nasty men with Guns
    They are backwards and no real threat to us.
    So why are we investing 200 Billion in that country to fight it?
    DONT say terrorism as I simply wont buy that.
     
    Valley, Sep 29, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #2
    You are right, it is all about money. ;)

    Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline
     
    gworld, Sep 29, 2009 IP
  3. willybfriendly

    willybfriendly Peon

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    #3
    No, it is about what lies next door.

    East and west, Afghanistan is bordered by nuclear armed, or nearly so, unstable Muslim countries (Pakistan and Iran). Further, the Taliban have significant influence in Pakistan.

    Afghanistan lies at the crossroads of the world, and is in a very unstable and particularly dangerous region. Look at a map and it all begins to make sense.
     
    willybfriendly, Sep 29, 2009 IP
  4. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #4
    I have no idea why your country is doing anything. Americans are in Afghanistan because they allowed Islamic terrorists to attack America and plan further attacks on America from Afghanistan. The fact that they are women oppressing thugs is just a bonus.

    How exactly is your country supporting the effort? Would anyone even notice if you did stop?
     
    browntwn, Sep 29, 2009 IP
  5. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #5
    For anyone that thinks Iraq is all about oil... fwiw, it's costing us out the wazoo and isn't doing didly for us in the oil department. If Iraq was a money making expedition we'd have bailed long ago.

    Add to that... you are correct in judging that there is no monetary gain in being in Afganistan... and you have to conclude Browntown might just have a point. Our foreign policy has had plenty of unsavory moments, but occasionally we might do something that doesn't have monetary gain as the goal.

    Then again, maybe we're just trying to corner the market on goats. :)
     
    robjones, Sep 29, 2009 IP
    guerilla likes this.
  6. Traditione

    Traditione Well-Known Member

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    #6
    So true, it's our next spearhead into the region (Israel being our major, and by our I mean the United Empire).
     
    Traditione, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  7. new

    new Peon

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    #7

    It is modren day colonialism, 'terrorism' is just a term coined to make these things more acceptable to public at home

    the area strategically is very important and their was a reason USSR chose to fight for it

    there are multiple reasons for this occupation

    1) to keep an eye and China/India/Russia
    2) to keep the central Asian republics in check, the central Asian republics are rich in oil/gas and natural resources
    4) to keep Iran/Pakistan in check , this is an added measure for security of the illegal isreal

    further they considered the Taliban a threat to the ideologies of neoconism and zionism so the cursades thing is also there in the background

    there would have been no problem if talibain too had become a boots licker of usa like rest of Middle east all their vices would have turned into virtues


    in short, the goal is the maintain the status quo, to maintain the world dominance (both politically and militarily)
    there is no moral justification for this war, other than the fact that those fighting just want to be sheriffs (or should I say gangsters) of the world and want to run it according to the rules which they make

    two of the worlds ex-powers USSR and GB have fought and lost at Afghan soil, results for usa would be no different
     
    new, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  8. willybfriendly

    willybfriendly Peon

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    #8
    The Taliban are a bunch of extremist thugs, untrusted by their own people, let alone the rest of the world.

    I can imagine few things scarier than allowing them access to Pakistans nuclear aresnal.
     
    willybfriendly, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  9. new

    new Peon

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    #9
    how do you back this up ?
     
    new, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  10. Jin

    Jin Active Member

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    #10
    Because that is what people around him telling him. On a side note, i think your conclusion is pretty accurate.
     
    Jin, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  11. Cyrus255

    Cyrus255 Well-Known Member

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    #11
    I'm surprised so many people can't understand this. Why does everyone ascribe such a comparatively (to the reality) GOOD MOTIVE like taking their oil to the elite?!

    Iraq was the best oil exporting nation, undercutting OPEC and selling at the lowest rate of any country.... BEFORE we invaded. If anything, we invaded to STOP THE OIL. :p It's like how the oil companies were buying up refineries and then shutting them down. It's profitable to have LESS oil. It's so weird how nobody can understand this when I try to explain it to them. It's in their best interests to NOT have Iraq pump any oil out.

    Less supply = higher prices for the oil they are already pumping out = more profit.

    As for Afghanistan, if we hadn't of invaded, the Taliban was literally destroying the opium trade. Now that we've taken over, opium (heroine) exports have more than quadrupled. People always assume the elite, even if they are doing *evil* things like invading countries, are doing it to get natural resources, etc. but why the hell would they care for our nation's strategic interests? Naive.
     
    Cyrus255, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  12. willybfriendly

    willybfriendly Peon

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    #12
    From Amnesty International - "Women in the public sphere remain at high risk of attack by the Taliban and other fundamentalist groups. Nevertheless, they carry on bravely and determinately. Track star Mahboba Ahdyar, only the third Afghan woman to ever qualify for the Olympics, dropped out of training in July 2008 to seek political asylum in Norway after a series of threats against her and her family in Kabul. In an especially troubling development, schools, teachers, and students--especially those dedicated to educating girls--have also been targeted. For example, in June 2007 two gunmen opened fire on schoolgirls outside of Kabul, shooting six and killing two, in what was apparently a politically-motivated attack against female education and in 2008 Taliban militants threw acid on 15 girls and teachers walking to school in southern Afghanistan. And in September 2008, Commander Malalai Kakar, Afghanistan’s most senior female police officer and a mother of six, was shot dead in Kandahar. She had been head of the city’s department of crimes against women. Many prominent female professionals and policymakers nevertheless continue their work on behalf of women and for a new Afghanistan."

    Sounds like thugs to me. Let's give 'em the bomb and see who they throw that on.
     
    willybfriendly, Sep 30, 2009 IP
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  13. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #13
    Oh good lord. Yep, I know, we've all been snowed.

    And this woman, whom most of us thought was long ago made a corpse in front of 100's of cheering men in a stadium, by a crew of gutless cowards with rifles, was just an actress.

    [​IMG]

    They actually all stood up afterwards, laughed their asses off, and went to the pub to down a pint. Because they were lost, and needed directions, they asked this guy:

    [​IMG]

    Who told them "it's back that way" by pointing with his goddamned walking stick.

    Yep. It's all western propaganda, and we in the west are unfortunate fools. The Taliban are, in actuality, one of the most enlightened, compassionate and wizened forces for tolerance and understanding we've yet seen. Thanks for helping us to see the errors of our delusion.

    [​IMG]

    :eek:
     
    northpointaiki, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  14. imad

    imad Peon

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    #14
    yeah, I bet it is scary now, after what US did there.

    I do not think "untrusted" by their own people is the correct word, but I may agree if Taliban's understanding of Islam in some issues might not be accepted by their people and there is a whole difference between both,

    US used the disagreement between Taliban and some of their people to portray it as a rejection of Taliban, but when both been put on the Afghani soil, the support went to Taliban, especially after US showed else than the slogans they raised of liberating Afghani people and smilar lies that were only to mislead the US public into thinking that they are fighting a noble war there, to gain their support, but it was apparent that this was not the case, after the so many mistaken raids that killed so many Afghani civilians, after Abu Ghraib, even if it was in Iraq, and after the torture policy that been exposed, and after the stories of the criminals acts US committed during the military operations there,

    Afghani people do trust Taliban in fighting this aggression, even if Taliban's extremism make their own people in disagreement with them,

    to the OP, I do not claim that I exactly know why Afghanistan, but I think there are many reasons, not just one or few, will list some of them below, but before, I think that I know how the main two reasons are not true:


    1- fighting Al-Qaeda in their base, or not making Afghanistan a haven for Al-Qaeda and terrorism.

    we all know that terrorism does not need a base country, with the modern technology that is available for terrorist, it is for the benefit of terrorists not to have a base, or a center, the stories of training camps are only to mislead the public into thinking that Al-Qaeda is an army, when it is not, so it won't be effective to use an army against them, police work will be much more effective with much less cost in souls and materials.

    2- Bring stability to Afghanistan.

    Which stability? the one that disappeared after US and it's allies came? or the one that the Russian been trying to bring for 20 years, or the one that US & CIA tried to bring by helping the rise of Taliban? or before them the one that the British were trying to bring? BS, the last thing US and its allies would care about is the stability, by stability they mean to occupy Afghnistan without noise, not else, not freedom, not development, not human rights, not fighting drugs..

    we know that this was also what Taliban wanted to do, to bring stability to Afghanistan after warlords and drug producers made it a complete mess, and obviously they did much better work than US and it's allies, in bringing stability and also in fighting drugs.

    so, why Afghanistan? I think:

    1- After 9/11 (regardless who was actually responsible for it) and the majority of American people thirsty for revenge - Afghanistan appeared as a guaranteed victory for US, and we all know that US army since after Vietnam do not fight hard wars, they always look for quick, easy, and fast victories, that does not mean Afghanistan was an easy target,

    of course US never heard about the proverb there that says "If God wants to punish a nation, he let them invade Afghanistan" and what appeared as an easy target, is slowly turning to a painful suffer for their soldiers, that made them several times request more troops and aides, and of course, it is almost impossible now to withdraw for US and it's allies, because it will mean a defeat, so they will stay there until they are no longer able to stay,

    Taliban and Afghani people in general, are slowly exposing US, they are not in a rush to expose them, they let them say the big lies, and as time passes, they expose themselves.

    2- the location, and the advantages it will bring to US, by giving them some kind of control over competitors, and put them close to some regimes that oppose them.


    3- drugs trade, that almost died in 2001, when Taliban was in power, figuers shows that after US and allies liberated Afghanistan, worldwide drugs trafficking thrived.

    4- some economical benefits in forcing Afghanistan to become an ally and of course later a market of everything good or bad produced by US, from junk food, to advanced technology, and also the pipeline, Taliban refused to deal with US in all these fields.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
    imad, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  15. willybfriendly

    willybfriendly Peon

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    #15
    I am not an apologist for the excesses of the US. That said, the Taliban's record speaks for itself and can hardly be justified by anything anybody else does.

    To allow such extremist thugs access to the Pakistani nuclear arsenal is hardly in the interest of anyone. And that, my man, is the primary interest in Afghani intervention.
     
    willybfriendly, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  16. Valley

    Valley Peon

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    #16
    Hi Rob
    Hope you are well.

    Afganistan produces 95% of the worlds opium.
    Its 50% of its GDP
    Do you think it could be as simple as that..
    Goats......
     
    Valley, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  17. Valley

    Valley Peon

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    #17
    The UK's death toll is higher.
    If you were to say those words in the UK I would not fancy your chances big boy...
     
    Valley, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  18. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #18
    Why? The UK is supporting the same effort we are. They are just as likely to be attacked by the same Islamic terrorists as we are. I would hope the US would support the UK in its efforts to eradicate terrorists as well.
     
    browntwn, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  19. new

    new Peon

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    #19
    poor UK
    they have to do as ordered by the masters

    @northpointaik

    yesterday 200 people were butchered in Guinea by army
    why don't you also give em some importance? please also save others why only Afghanistan , please liberate those people

    @jin
    northpointaik is one of those naive people who think usa attacked Afghanistan to save the few women who were being maltreated, so to save those they decided to murder many hundred thousands
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
    new, Sep 30, 2009 IP
  20. Jin

    Jin Active Member

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    #20
    I am sure your forces have killed more on point blank :) and to set your records straight let me put some videos of your civilized Angel self.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=oB0k2gHLKHA

    http://www.kval.com/news/40449107.html?video=YHI&t=a
    Yes angels!
     
    Jin, Sep 30, 2009 IP